Mediation / Separation / Divorce

[coretys]

Hi there,

some light reading for you. I would rather talk about cherry blossom, nice bbq's and how lovely my child is, but ...

I try to keep it short ... I want to divorce my wife. After getting treated badly for 11 years now, I decided it is time to move on. That's what happened ...

December 2008: I told my wife that I want to live separate, but keep on working at the current home. > More money for my wife.

She got upset, angry, threatened with lawyers, and got much nicer ???
I talked to my in-laws and after only 90 minutes they said OK, you can do that!
It is our house you are living in and we decide!
They are actually on my side!
Yes, I know: Don't put too much value into this. She's their daughter.

End of December 2008: I decided to stay and give my wife another chance, because she was much nicer than ever before. She probably realized, that I'm not that bad to be around with. But she started snooping around my mobile phone and my e-mails. She found some few things, that she maybe can use in court. After 11 years of marriage, and about the same period of no affection I met a girl that for 5 minutes held my hand and hugged me twice! Is this enough to give me problem in court? My wife also found a picture of her sleeping on a sofa (in a public place, not love hotel or something.). I never cheated on my wife. And I don't really want to. I want a divorce, and then possibly find a woman to share my life with. Because I saw guys that are married and have girlfriends. It's a weird relation, and quite bad for the girlfriend and the wife. So I don't want that.

I have a permanent residency visa and I like Japan. My daughter is 8. And don't want to leave Japan. I would like to see my daughter. But I can't trust my wife. She is dishonest, and does anything it takes to get what she wants. She has this image of a happy family, but doesn't care about my wishes at all. If I can't trust her, I can't love her. But let's not go there. Everybody knows these problems.

Twice the police came to our hosue, because I supposedly used violence against her. First time was about 8 years ago...

She slapped me in the face.
I told her that this hurts me and that she should not do that.
She slapped me again.
I got up and hold her arms and told her the same again.
I didn't let go until she agreed.
She called the police and said, that I used violence.
The police came and wrote everything bad about me down, but nothing that I said, that was bad against my wife!

The second time was recent. Two weeks ago...

She wanted to record our conversation on a tape recorder, and I didn't want that so I leaned over her and pushed her down for 5 second to get the tape recorder that she was not holding in her hand. And tore up the tape. Yes I was angry. Then 6 police men came with a car.

It looks to me like prepairing for an ugly court case, where she could use the incidences.

The situation now is that she doesn't want to talk to me anymore. She locks the door to her room when she is at home. As if I am a total violent person. She wrote me an e-mail. That I should not talk to her more than 10 seconds, because otherwise she feels sick to her stomach! But she filed for mediation at court. She doesn't want a divorce it seems. I do. But her behavior at home is the opposite.

Why does she want to mediate?
Is it money?
Do you know something about the mediation process?
Can it be used in a court case, what is being said at a mediation?
Should I appear as a person that doesn't want to divorce, or just tell them straight out, what I want?

I don't have a lot of money. I can properly pay for my daughter every month, and I plan to. I already talked this over with my in-laws. But I don't have enough money to pay for my wife too.

Financially speaking ...

Divorce: I pay for the child only.
Separation: I should pay for my wife and my child.

Right?

Anyway. What should I do?
Do you know something about the mediation process?

Any help or advice is appreciated ...

C

[KansaiBen]

Originally Posted by coretys

I don't have a lot of money. I can properly pay for my daughter every month, and I plan to. I already talked this over with my in-laws. But I don't have enough money to pay for my wife too.

Financially speaking ...

Divorce: I pay for the child only.
Separation: I should pay for my wife and my child.

Right?

Anyway. What should I do?
Do you know something about the mediation process?

Any help or advice is appreciated ...

C

Mediation is not a trial and you dont appear before a judge. Mediation is for a couple where one person does not want a divorce or cant agree on the terms of separation, compensation etc. You appear before a panel at the family court and they hear both sides. They then come to a ruling on whether a divorce should be granted. Their decision is non-binding and if you decide to oppose the ruling then you apply for a dissolution through the court.

With mediation you will have to pay for lawyers and representation. Expect to spend up to a million yen. You may have to pay compensation to wife and this can be anything between 1-3 million yen.

Child support is paid until child is 18.

[coretys]

So worsed case is:

Child: 8.4 Million for the child over the next 10 years.
Wife: 3 Million
Lawyer: 1 Million

Total: 12.4 Million

Best case is:

Child: 6 Million for the child over the next 10 years.
Wife: 1 Million
Lawyer: 0 (Dream on ...)

Total: 7 Million

I'm f*cked. I will not be able to pay this off ever. Not even the low figure is really realistic. The last 11 years I payed my wife's sport club membership, her mobile phone and her retirement fund. But I couldn't afford to pay my own retirement fund.

1. What happens if I divorce, but don't pay for my wife?
2. What happens if I don't divorce, but separate and in this case don't pay for my wife?
3. ANY TIPS ABOUT THE MEDIATION? How should I proceed?

My wife wants to mediate to get together and make everything alright. Or not?

She wrote me:

Mediators ...

- don't know us.
- are totally neutral.
- are professionals.
- saw and experienced many of those cases.
- are reasonable, moral and understand the law.
- can quietly listen to our problems.

But it doesn't seem to me that she wants a divorce. If she wanted a divorce, then I wouldn't have to pay so much to her. Is that right?

C

[KansaiBen]

Originally Posted by coretys

S
But it doesn't seem to me that she wants a divorce. If she wanted a divorce, then I wouldn't have to pay so much to her. Is that right?

C

No one can make you pay if you dont have the money. My ex screwed me out of a lot of money and she got kids as well. She also said she wants to send them to private schools at 1.5 million a year. I said good luck because I aint paying for it. Told wife there is no money for her pension either.

If you dont have the money for compensation or dont earn enough then realistically she cant make you pay. You have a moral obligation to support daughter until the age of 18. You could stop paying child support and there is in fact very little she can do about it. What she can do is deny access and you never see your kid again. You have to decide which is more important, money or keeping in touch with your kids.


Personally I dont think you can get a divorce because she read your emails and there is no real indication of an affair (though a photo of holding hands with another woman is incriminating- legally wife can sue other woman for breaking up her marriage as well as you for compensation)

If you cant afford to a divorce then you will simply have to put up with each other or live separately until such a time you can reach an agreement that will satisfy both of you.

More on getting a divorce in Japan and what it will cost you

http://www.debito.org/whattodoif.html#divorce


PS Mediators can be biased, you just have to be able to read the signs. In Debito's case the mediator was prejudiced towards wife and questioned his role as a father based on Japanese customs. You can ask for a mediator to be removed if they show favoritism to the other party.

[coretys]

I want to pay for the child. I plan on doing that. There is just no money for my wife. If I don't pay my wife, is this a reason for the court, not to give us a divorce? If I pay for the child, I would like to see her at least once or twice a month, but that's probably not guaranteed. It's up to my wife anyway. But I think, my in-laws can lean on her for that too, because my wife depends on my in-laws heavily. They basically raise my child anyway and financially she needs them too if I can't pay her money.

C

[KansaiBen]

Originally Posted by coretys

I want to pay for the child. I plan on doing that. There is just no money for my wife. If I don't pay my wife, is this a reason for the court, not to give us a divorce? If I pay for the child, I would like to see her at least once or twice a month, but that's probably not guaranteed. It's up to my wife anyway. But I think, my in-laws can lean on her for that too, because my wife depends on my in-laws heavily. They basically raise my child anyway and financially she needs them too if I can't pay her money.

C

You are assuming that compensation is a given, when its not. Compensation or 'isharyo' is paid when there has been some kind of personal injury or harm caused to one party. A divorce can be granted through such causes as adultery, domestic violence, abandonment of the marriage and such things as wife not providing enough 'sexual comfort' for the husband. Incompatible personalities can also be a cause for a divorce. Having wife lock herself in the bathroom and not speaking to you except by email is a good example of a marriage that is on life support or in name only.


I can only speak from my own experience (where it was mutual) and it was simply a division of assets and agreement over the raising of the child. The wife may even agree to forgo compensation as long as the child is looked after. Only mediation or a court can tell you this though.

I would advise you contact a lawyer to see what your likely financial obligations are and what your wifes rights are in this regard.

PS Police usually wont get involved in domestic disputes unless one of you is on the point of killing the other, then it becomes a police problem.

[coretys]

So the best thing for me is to tell my side of the story at court and then there will be a recommendation. Compensation could be zero, if she can't persuade the judge, that I did something wrong. It is anyway strange. If I would be that much of a bad person, that she thinks I am. Why doesn't she want a divorce. She should be very happy to get rid of me.

I am planing to move out on the 1st of May. I get my own office and apartment. And from then on I will only pay my child, even though I am married. Is that a legal problem? I can't pay my wife's life if I move out. And I have a big chance right now to rent quite cheap office space. Later on this chance may be gone.

I don't really have time to meet a lawyer. I work quite a lot. Somebody has to get money. My wife keeps all the money and nobody knows how much she has or how much she exactly earns. Where she is until 6 pm everyday even though she works only until 1:30 pm.

C

[KansaiBen]

Originally Posted by coretys

So the best thing for me is to tell my side of the story at court and then there will be a recommendation. Compensation could be zero, if she can't persuade the judge, that I did something wrong. It is anyway strange. If I would be that much of a bad person, that she thinks I am. Why doesn't she want a divorce. She should be very happy to get rid of me.

I am planing to move out on the 1st of May. I get my own office and apartment. And from then on I will only pay my child, even though I am married. Is that a legal problem? I can't pay my wife's life if I move out. And I have a big chance right now to rent quite cheap office space. Later on this chance may be gone.

I don't really have time to meet a lawyer. I work quite a lot. Somebody has to get money. My wife keeps all the money and nobody knows how much she has or how much she exactly earns. Where she is until 6 pm everyday even though she works only until 1:30 pm.

C

You wont even get to see a judge. That only comes after you have been through mediation and you want to appeal the decision of the mediators. If you cant afford mediation then the only realistic option is to divide up any assets you have. There is no way to divorce on the cheap if one does not agree to it.

She can not stop you walking out but if she wants compensation she may have to file for mediation with the family court.

She probably doesnt want a divorce because its you that pays the bills and supports her. A divorce will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Most women wont divorce unless they absolutely have to or the marriage has irretrievably broken down.

Why does wife have all the money? You earn it right? If so then change the bank accounts. If its her money its hard for you to ask her for it. Do you pool your income or do you just hand over your paycheck every month? How do you manage money? Wife controls money then she controls your life. Wife did same thing to me. With no money you cant do anything even though you earn it. How also will you divide assets if you dont know how much she has or is hoarding?


You dont have time to meet a lawyer. MAKE the time. Hmm sounds like you are not serious about getting a divorce either and making excuses about why you cant afford it. Too busy etc? You want a divorce, or not?

Divorce in Japan, like marriage, is easy if both parties agree to it. All you have to do is head for the Ward Office and fill out a Divorce Form (rikon todoke--essentially the opposite procedure for getting married using a kekkon todoke). Spouses put their inkan stamp on the todoke (signatures are not valid), and file it with the Ward Office. That is all. They are divorced. This is called kyougi rikon, or "divorce by mutual consent", which happens, estimates a lawyer friend who specializes in these cases, in about 80% of divorces. Assets, possessions, or property are divided up either informally or through the legal community, and you make a clean sweep of it and get on with your lives.

However, if both parties do not agree to divorce, things can get very messy. According to Japan Civil Code Article 770, there are five grounds for unilateral divorce:

1) infidelity

2) malicious desertion (which for foreign spouses can include being deported)

3) uncertainty whether or not the spouse is dead or alive for three years or more,

4) serious mental disease without hope of recovery, or

5) a "grave reason" which makes continuing the marriage impossible.

What is considered a "grave reason" is unclear, and at the discretion of a judge if things go to court. One reason can be the wife refusing the husband sexual relations for a long period of time (a reason only men can claim). Another can be the husband refusing the family unit his financial support (which only women can claim). However, the simple fact that you do not like each other anymore, i.e. a matter of "irreconcilable differences" (seishin teki kutsuu), is not, according to lawyer Mizunuma Isao of IGM Law Offices, Sapporo, considered to be sufficient grounds.

Here things begin to pinch. If one side refuses to agree to the divorce, you will have to negotiate until you do, which can take many years. You can legally separate, but this is not a divorce, and you cannot remarry. Moreover, if there is a secret relationship behind the breakup, a spouse in Japan can sue your new partner for damages, demanding both you and your partner pay consolation for wrecking the marriage!

If you after talking things out you still cannot agree to divorce, you go to Family Court. The first step is called choutei (mediation), where you sit down with three representatives, i.e. two "upstanding members of the community" (who are generally not certified counselors) and one representative of the court. This mediation system is designed to give disputing couples a forum for their grievances without snarling up the courts. However, the role of the choutei is not to find fault on either side, rather to help both sides reach an agreement--i.e. reconcile or divorce. Meetings take place around every month or two, generally in separate rooms for a few hours, and can continue for years.

If the couple cannot reach an agreement even after court mediation (which is estimated to happen in around 5% of all divorce cases), then the next step is a lawsuit in Family Court. There, a judge will only rule that a contested divorce is legitimate if you can prove that the marriage has completely "collapsed" (hatan).

This is one of the reasons why divorces in Japan get messy. Since judges hardly ever grant divorces to the person who did wrong, you must show that your partner was at fault. In other words, you cannot separate amicably--you have to dredge something up. This does not create a constructive atmosphere; it can cause even more feelings of ill-will and a future desire for revenge. Also, since laws governing perjury in Japan are at best weakly enforced in civil cases, your spouse may make some exaggerated claims about your past in court with impunity. If it goes to court, it will get very nasty.

After all that, if the judge does not rule the marriage has actually "collapsed", all you can do is wait. Sometimes former couples still reside together yet live divorced lives (katei nai bekkyo) of no contact. Separations of at least five years (ten to twenty years are not extraordinary in Japan) are necessary before a contested divorce may be granted by a court. Meanwhile, if there are children who need feeding, child support will be assessed by looking at a fee schedule created by the Bar Association, which measures both parents' income and determines an appropriate monthly sum.

[KansaiBen]

Originally Posted by coretys

HThe situation now is that she doesn't want to talk to me anymore. She locks the door to her room when she is at home. As if I am a total violent person. She wrote me an e-mail. That I should not talk to her more than 10 seconds, because otherwise she feels sick to her stomach! But she filed for mediation at court. She doesn't want a divorce it seems. I do. But her behavior at home is the opposite.
Any help or advice is appreciated ...

C

If she has filed for mediation it means that she doesnt expect any divorce to be an amicable separation (kyogi rikon) and needs the intervention of a third party to issue a ruling on whether a divorce is merited (they can refuse her on certain grounds too).

Saying you dont have time or the money is simply putting off the inevitable. You may have to separate until both of you cool down and if you cant talk like grown adults then you will need to pay lawyers to do your talking for you. You cant have it both ways.

[coretys]

I try to talk to her since the beginning of March (when everything turned to the worse a bit more). But she can't listen at all to what I say. She doesn't want to talk to me even in front of her parents and her sister. She knows she can't win. She needs neutral people, who don't know her. Everybody that knows us is on my side. I will get the form for divorce and prepare it. I will try to get her to sign it. I will go to the mediation and tell my side of the story. After that I will see ... Court is very expensive. And I can't pay right now. She filed for informal mediation with the family court. That's free.

My wife as me for a certain amount of money. It is not extremly much. But the rest I can keep. And I try to save as much as possible.

C

[KansaiBen]

Originally Posted by coretys

I try to talk to her since the beginning of March (when everything turned to the worse a bit more). But she can't listen at all to what I say. She doesn't want to talk to me even in front of her parents and her sister. She knows she can't win. She needs neutral people, who don't know her. Everybody that knows us is on my side. I will get the form for divorce and prepare it. I will try to get her to sign it. I will go to the mediation and tell my side of the story. After that I will see ... Court is very expensive. And I can't pay right now. She filed for informal mediation with the family court. That's free.

My wife as me for a certain amount of money. It is not extremly much. But the rest I can keep. And I try to save as much as possible.

C

There is only one form for divorce. It asks whether you want 'kyogi( mutual), chotei (mediation) or saiban (court) she wont sign anything unless shes satisfied she will get what she wants, whatever that is. If you disagree then chotei is the next step. It doesnt matter what other people say. A divorce can only take place between two people. Once you get a divorce its very hard to go back and ask for more money etc.

Mediation I understand means meeting once a month for several months until you either reach agreement or they make a ruling. Court is the very last resort and you want to avoid that if at all possible.

[let`s talk]

Originally Posted by coretys

Twice the police came to our hosue, because I supposedly used violence against her. First time was about 8 years ago...

She slapped me in the face.
I told her that this hurts me and that she should not do that.
She slapped me again.
I got up and hold her arms and told her the same again.
I didn't let go until she agreed.
She called the police and said, that I used violence.
The police came and wrote everything bad about me down, but nothing that I said, that was bad against my wife!

The second time was recent. Two weeks ago...

She wanted to record our conversation on a tape recorder, and I didn't want that so I leaned over her and pushed her down for 5 second to get the tape recorder that she was not holding in her hand. And tore up the tape. Yes I was angry. Then 6 police men came with a car.

It looks to me like prepairing for an ugly court case, where she could use the incidences.

C

Are you sure you are safe there? Looks like she is capable of any provocations and sets-up that she can use against you at court.Police can be not so "kind" next time.What if they really arrest you? They can keep you even if she drops the charges.It would be safer to stay somewhere at cheap price until your future apartment is ready.

[countryboy]

Originally Posted by coretys

I try to keep it short ... I want to divorce my wife. After getting treated badly for 11 years now, I decided it is time to move on. That's what happened..

yes, that's what happened.

It looks to me like prepairing for an ugly court case, where she could use the incidences.

Yes she is.

The situation now is that she doesn't want to talk to me anymore. She locks the door to her room when she is at home.

Good sign she doesn't want to continue the relationship.

Why does she want to mediate?
Is it money?

Of course EVERYTHING boils down to money. You should know this by now.

Can it be used in a court case, what is being said at a mediation?
Should I appear as a person that doesn't want to divorce, or just tell them straight out, what I want?

Sure EVERYTHING is used in court, and that means EVERYTHING!!!!

I don't have a lot of money. I can properly pay for my daughter every month, and I plan to. I already talked this over with my in-laws. But I don't have enough money to pay for my wife too.

Your in-laws are your enemies, but you don't seemed to have realized this yet.

The fact that you have no money is good, but bad also as you will be expected to pay and pay and pay.

Figure out a way where you don't have to pay and pay and you may survive your 'marriage.'