Good Monthly Investment Plan

[psp]

Dear All
I am looking for a good monthly investment plan, which should be capital secured and assures a minimum return. I saw the sponsored link of ExpatFunds/Zurich International on this site. Anybody has any experience about this company? I am looking for a reputed Swiss Asset Management Company who offers a monthly investment plan.

PSP

[agnesemica]

Hello,
I know Zurich International. This company offers a very good saving account, and you can start saving in USD, EUR, Yen, etc. The minimum monthly contribution is 300USD or 40,000 Yen.
If you need more information, please let me know.

[Morton]

I have one with Royal Skandia, although it's based in the Isle of Man (I think). Again you can save in different currencies and the bonuses seem good. I've been paying about 450 GBP for the last year or so and present value is already significantly higher. Over 15 years I will save about 81000 and should get back more than double that. I think the minimum savings period is 5 years. They also send a statement every month which I like.


edited to say that I didn't read you post correctly. I don't believe that the return is in anyway guaranteed with Skandia.

[jonnyrobinson]

Dear Morton, I am interested in Royal Skandia. I am a UK national in Japan. I am particularly interested in their Managed Pension Account Fund. Any info you could give me regarding the company and your experience with it would be most welcome! Please pm me if you would rather not have everyone see it, thanks.

[Morning Star]

Dear Friends;

I have recently become the benefactor of a sizable windfall, no less than 5 million USD. I need your help to discover this fortune.

You see, I was walking towards Meijijingu shrine last week and the Emperors motorcade ran over my foot, crushing all of my tarsals. As a bonus, the Doctor's said that my metatarsals had disintegrated. In order to make up for the incident and save face, the Royal family, including the baby, have offered to wire me this generous sum of money, no less than 5 MILLION USD.

Unfortunately, I have a student bank account with a cap of 500,000 Yen. My foot hurts too much to go and open up an unlimited account, so I need you to wire the money through your bank and send the cash to my hospital bed... with flowers, please. In appreciation for your services I am prepared to give you 30% of the approximite 5 million USD. Please don't ask for more since the rest of the money will go to give me a bionic prosthesis and pay for my already significant medical bills.

PM me for details. I can only extend this offer to the most trustworthy and financially secure people here. I have to go in for another operation now, please hurry.

I am forever indebted to you,
MS

[agnesemica]

Sorry to hear what happened to you.
Talking about your bank account, maybe I have an idea. Why don't you open an offshore bank account?? If you want to do that, then I can help you. What do you think?
Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you

[Morton]

JonnyRobinson,

I don't really know what to tell you. I have the Managed Savings Account but I believe the Managed Pension Account is basically the same. So far I've been really happy with the company. The policy has increased right from the start (probably in large part due to the bonuses they offer). As I went for a plan over 10 years I believe I get 7% added to whatever I pay in for the duration of the policy. When compared to other similar ex-pat policies I have this one seems to have increased right from the start. And as I said previously you get a monthly statement which I like.

As for paying the policy the money comes out of my current account in the UK so I just send money home every six months or so.

In the last year or two I've invested quite a lot of money, which took me a long time to get together, and so far it's been a mixed bag but I have to say that Skandia has been the best so far.

[jonnyrobinson]

Thanks Morton. They seem like a good, reputable organisation to me. I've got about 10,000 GBP available that I would like to invest ASAP. Think I'll contact them...thanks again.

[Glenn]

Hi all,

I bought into a Royal skandia (should be skamdia) and afetr 4 yrs of putting money into it had to take a break. They charge an awful lot to take a break. aparently this is the only company out of all the companies financial advisors recommend that charge you for taking a break.

Not a wise choise given that anything else is more flexible.
ex-pat funds have some better choices which I think may work out better for me.

Glenn

[Morton]

What Glen says is correct. I have agreed to contribute for 15 years and should I stop within 5 I would get nothing back while taking a break from paying would also hurt. In saying that this was fully explained to me and being a stingy type went over the policy details in great detail. If I had not been 100% sure that I couldn't keep up the payments I would not of chosen this policy and pumped the money somewhere more flexible. As I pay quite a lot every month it does force me to save and although there is the odd tight month this policy is for me. What I don't get in flexibility I suppose I get in better bonuses.

By the way JonnyRobinson if it's a lump sum you want to invest I was told, for reasons I can't recall, that this is not what I'm looking for. I also have some guaranteed hedge fund type things where the capital is guaranteed. If you look around you can find guarantees of 120% and the like but of course the cost of the guarantee affects any gains

[Glenn]

Not that they are bad people but the guy at Banner who sold me the Skandia account sold it to me like it is the most flexible thing on earth. he said I could take a break after a couple of years or stop paying (well I guess I can do a lot of things including jumping off the roof but probably shouldn't) he didn't mention that I shouldn't because of not only charges that remain but they actually increase! taking a break if I have to the skandia said to me they will increase my charges which is why I then looked into it further to find out that only skandia out of almost any other account by any other company is the only one that increases charges to penalize you.

not sure if my advisor knew this or not but they have no business recommending products they don't themselves understand. education can sometimes be expensive.

[jonnyrobinson]

I can see your point Glenn, but isn't it ultimately a case of caveat emptor? I mean it's up to you to read the fine print and not just totally rely on someone else.

[Morning Star]

Originally Posted by jonnyrobinson

I can see your point Glenn, but isn't it ultimately a case of caveat emptor? I mean it's up to you to read the fine print and not just totally rely on someone else.

Hindsight is 20/20, JonnyR.
I wish that I had inspected the bag of pencil shavings before I laid down $40 for it, but I didn't, and I got screwed. Salespeople and 'Advisors' aren't always honest and fine-print is intentionally wordy and hard to read. It sounds like Skandia can offer fixed rates of returns on investments because it manages to screw enough people within the terms of the contract.

[Colin]

In regards to what you guys are talking about. I invested in Meyer asset management's Zurich Supra International Savings and Investment Plan in September 2002. I have been contributing 30000 yen a month since that time. Recently I have decided to get married and have enquired to what the Surrender Value and Surrender Penalty would be. It is a 15 year investment, and after two and a half years the investment has become worth about 1,000,000 yen ($10000USD). I will get only 50% of that back if I surrender the investment now. So the penalties and fees amoun to 50% of what I have invested because I am supposedly paying for 15 years of penalties and fees from the beginning. In the brochure that I still have it states the following:

"If you fully encash your plan before the end of your selected savings period, there will be a deduction from the investment account based on the expense recoupment charges which Zurich International Life will not receive because the plan did not run for the expected period"

A "deduction" is right. Try a 50% "deduction". This deduction has left me with a sick feeling in my stomach.

To those of you who wish to invest in these funds BEWARE! You are saving for 10 to 15 years. DO NOT expect to touch that money if you need it. Can be difficult to those of us who are younger and can only afford to save 30000 a month. When you are younger there are expenses that happen to get yourself started. i.e. Marriage, New Home, First Car, moving back to home country,etc.

If anyone wishes to continue talking to me about this reply to this thread and/or PM (personal Message) Me.

Regards,
Colin

[Morton]

Colin,

I don't know your personal situation but I feel 30000 a month ain't that much, most couples should be able to manage that. You should save at least 10% of your salary so think of it as putting money in a bank. . I think you should keep paying and reap the rewards in 12 years. After a while you'll probably just forget about it. I'm 37 and started my first policy when I got my first job at 21 (and then another a year later). Although it hurt at first, especially when I quit my job and went back to college, I kept up the payments and they are tiny now. These policies are increasing and, with bonuses, I should be looking at two nice lump sums in 4 and 5 years.

Don't cash your policy in you'll live to regret it.

[Colin]

Still deciding on what to do. But that is good advice. I was just shocked top learn of the high penalty rates and I am warning others who may need aceess to such saving in the short term. My advisor did explain that it is a long term commitment so I should have kept that in mind.

Regards,
Colin

[japanguy]

I am thinking about investing with Meyer. I am curious as the average annual returns.
Anyone unhappy with them other than their penalties for eary withdrawal?

Japanguy

[Bibulousman]

For people looking to invest a lump sum higher than US $45K, I can make some suggestions of places to look for private equity placement deals. Some of the deals offer high returns, no charges for leaving the investment, security, etc.
Cheers.

[kanashibari]

about 7 years ago i actually worked for one of these places in tokyo . my advice to you all would be to stay away. most of these contracts are put so you cannot touch your money for 20 years or longer no matter what they tell you. the commissions are much higher for them that way. i would stick to investments with an advisor in your home countries. in addition, i invested in a fund that was robbed by the owner and lost 60k , about 100k USD in todays dollars.a mr.
.. if you have specific questions then send them to me via personal mail

[R.Akashi]

Fortunately, we`re not all cowboys, there are some reputable companies out there.

Sadly, I`m sure some of you have been misled with regards to the flexibility of these investments. All the above mentioned products are good, IF they are held until maturity. A pension plan isnt designed to encash after 3 years, unless your 62ish. If you have a pension In the UK , your committed to paying until you retire. No holidays/ premium reductions/early encashment whatsoever, and all tax free(no room to go into more detail here)..

Global Wealth Management has taken the approach of having all their Advisors (all staff are UK Licensed or currently taking FPC exams)PROFESSIONALLY INDEMNIFIED.
Simply put, by becoming a client, if you felt that you had been missold/misguided with any investment decison you made, there is a 3rd party ombudsman who you can put your case to, and compensation will be paid if the company was proven to be negligent. I know of no other independent company here in Tokyo offering this extra security. So, like your HSBC`S and Merrill Lynch`s you have some form of recourse. Naturally, if you needed a surgeon/lawyer you would make sure he was insured, wouldnt you? Why not your financial advisor?

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to drop me a line

Regards
Robert Akashi

[BasilBrush]

Anyone have any feedback about an account with Zurich?

[Blues]

"Global Wealth Management has taken the approach of having all their Advisors (all staff are UK Licensed or currently taking FPC exams)PROFESSIONALLY INDEMNIFIED. Simply put, by becoming a client, if you felt that you had been missold/misguided with any investment decison you made, there is a 3rd party ombudsman who you can put your case to, and compensation will be paid if the company was proven to be negligent. "

"If the company is proven to be negligent" that is the catch because the company is never proven to be negligent. Why are all the staff UK licensed ? How about Japan licensed?

And have any of you ever visited one of these offices? Most of the times you try to contact the salemen you get an answering service and you never go to their offices, they always want to meet in coffeeshops. And how many of them have gone thru name changes? I deal with Shinsei bank and for investments with a reputable firm out of the US.

[trip_hop]

Professionally indemnified??? I should prefer that they were professionally qualified! Have seen ex-policeman, hairdressers, conversation teachers all suddenly becoming "financial advisers" in Japan, preying on the ignorance of the clients here.

The advisers say caveat emptor, and the providers say that they were only providing services. Try to get one to admit that they are wrong? And compensate you? Hey look, there's a cow jumping over the moon!

And companies with PO Boxes, no HO, or run out of apartments in Spain or lots on industrial estates in the UK.

As blues recommends, deal with reputable firms, or ones back home.

[R.Akashi]

Oh dear,

All this mud slinging...

Where`s all the love...
In reply to the above 2 emails...

Blues chan.. Japan is one of the few civilised countries that is non regulated in terms of financial products...We are all UK licensed because thats where we took our exams. We havent just got off the boat and had a choice of becoming a monkey or an advisor. To pass the FPC exams, it takes about 3 years of studying and work experience.
There are no catches, with the insurance. We have an inhouse compliance team that screens all new business.
To make sure there is no misselling, we have our clients fill out a fact finder.If one of our staff were to sell you a 20 year plan, even though you had stated in the fact find that you are retiring in 5 years, and for some reason or other this had slipped through the preliminary firewalls, the company would be liable, even if the guy who recommended the product had left the company. Thats what the Professional Indemnity is all about.
Please feel free to come and visit our offices in Kamiyacho anytime. We also work at weekends..!
Shinsei are great,I myself sometimes recommend their products. But they are also limited on what they can recommend. Being independent means we can go to the open market and give you the best products that meet your own personal criteria unlike Shinsei who can only recommend what they have to offer. If it means recommending another company then so be it.. Remember, not all reputable companies are snow white....Look at Nomura here, or Merrills in the US..fined millions for bad advice/churning biz etc..

Dear Trip hop chan...please read the above, we dont all drink from the same cup...!
Dealing with firms back home means you lose out on the legitimate tax breaks(for UK expats) or tax deferral(for US expats)opportunities that would arise from dealing offshore..

[trip_hop]

Oh dear, all this mudslinging......Where`s all the love?

No smoke without fire....


.....we dont all drink from the same cup...!

But many of you seem to slurp from the same trough!!!



Ian Fleming wrote in "Goldfinger",

Once is happenstance,
Twice is coincidence,
Three times is enemy action.....

Complaints about Financial Advisers and Investment Companies in Japan exceed that last figure by a considerable margin.....

[R.Akashi]

I take it you had your fingers burnt..

Read Magellans rules to doing business with an IFA here in Japan. Very educational, and add the professional indemnity...

Thankfully, by 2007/8, Japan should fall into line with the rest of the world and so yes, everyone will have to be licensed to promote these products...

[trip_hop]

More than a few people in Japan and HK were burned, scalded, or seared; and either lost money or ended up with plans that were less flexible than they originally planned for. I know of at least one that went to court.

Cleaning up the finance industry is long overdue, though it would seem to be a Herculean effort, similar to his cleaning the stables.

[R.Akashi]

after reading a posting about Magellans and mortgages, please ignore the recommendation above...

[Derukugi]

Originally Posted by Morning Star

Dear Friends;

I have recently become the benefactor of a sizable windfall, no less than 5 million USD. I need your help to discover this fortune.

(snip)

Dear Morning Star,
I have some very good friends at the Central Bank of Nigeria who would be delighted to help you in your predicament. For a small percentage of your windfall, I am happy to introduce you two to each other. Please PM me for my bank account number.

[naughton]

Hi
I invested in Zurich International and ask for
surrender value
Wow after 5 years with a Bad Return , they`re charging me
50% to surrender i.e. they`re taking more out than I put in

Also they`re charge maint. fee per year .....

Forget this 15year ploy etc.
THERE IS NO GUARANTEE WITH THESE COMPANIES
Learned my lesson...

Open a US brokage a/c and buy ETF
You`re better off

[tanmedia]

Originally Posted by naughton

Hi
I invested in Zurich International and ask for
surrender value
Wow after 5 years with a Bad Return , they`re charging me
50% to surrender i.e. they`re taking more out than I put in

Also they`re charge maint. fee per year .....

Forget this 15year ploy etc.
THERE IS NO GUARANTEE WITH THESE COMPANIES
Learned my lesson...

Open a US brokage a/c and buy ETF
You`re better off

-- These kinds of savings plans are for long-term savings, not short- to medium-term. You should be looking at 20+ years. Also, with Zurich, penalties diminish over time so it's in your interests to keep it going by paying a minimum sum every month. BTW, ETFs also charge maintenance fees and you don't have the same tax benefits or choice of funds as a scheme like Zurich.

I have a Zurich plan that I think of as pension payments. I also have ETFs. However, I approach both differently. The Zurich plan should be considered an "expense" that is sunk for the immediate future. The ETF can be thought of as a supplement to it.

[Plats]

Originally Posted by tanmedia

-- These kinds of savings plans are for long-term savings, not short- to medium-term. You should be looking at 20+ years. Also, with Zurich, penalties diminish over time so it's in your interests to keep it going by paying a minimum sum every month. BTW, ETFs also charge maintenance fees and you don't have the same tax benefits or choice of funds as a scheme like Zurich.

I have a Zurich plan that I think of as pension payments. I also have ETFs. However, I approach both differently. The Zurich plan should be considered an "expense" that is sunk for the immediate future. The ETF can be thought of as a supplement to it.

Let’s compare an index fund, an ETF and one of these Zurich funds.

Vanguard Total Stock market Index fund (VTSMX)
$0 to buy/sell
0.19% yearly expense ratio
1.65% yield [so 0 tax in the USA for a married couple up to $1 million if not sold]

Vanguard Total Stock market ETF (VTI)
$0~25 to buy/sell each purchase [depending on brokerage]
0.07% yearly expense ratio
1.83% yield [same as above]

Could you give the data of one of your Zurich funds for us?

[tanmedia]

Originally Posted by Plats

Let’s compare an index fund, an ETF and one of these Zurich funds.

Vanguard Total Stock market Index fund (VTSMX)
$0 to buy/sell
0.19% yearly expense ratio
1.65% yield [so 0 tax in the USA for a married couple up to $1 million if not sold]

Vanguard Total Stock market ETF (VTI)
$0〜25 to buy/sell each purchase [depending on brokerage]
0.07% yearly expense ratio
1.83% yield [same as above]

Could you give the data of one of your Zurich funds for us?

-- Vanguard ETFs are tough to beat and will beat most managed funds in the long-term because of their low fee loads. I can't argue against that. However, you should read this (straight from the Vanguard site).

"The introduction of the First Index Investment Trust was one of the few truly seminal dates in the mutual fund industry," said John J. Brennan, Vanguard chairman and CEO. "It offered the individual investor a broadly diversified, low-cost investment approach that wasn't available before."

"It would've been hard to foresee the impact of the 500 Index Fund 30 years ago," said Mr. Brennan. "And yet, we're just starting to see the impact of the proven concept of indexing. As more people understand the power of indexing at least a core portion of a portfolio, in whatever market sector they invest in, index funds will be used by more and more investors. While index funds will never replace actively managed funds, they can complement them in a tremendous way."

[Gest]

Originally Posted by tanmedia

-- Vanguard ETFs are tough to beat and will beat most managed funds in the long-term because of their low fee loads. I can't argue against that. However, you should read this (straight from the Vanguard site).

Are they still a better bet than the index funds if you aren't a frequent trader? I'm trying to decide between the two and hear a lot of noise about ETFs but their advantage seems to be in not penalising short term investors. It seems to me like ETFs can be traded much like shares but I'd be looking to hold onto whatever I'm buying for at least a couple of years so am I missing some of the other benefits of ETFs?

[naughton]

Lets Look at Zurich Fund
http://www.zurichintlife.com/templat...&onid=157&rg=6

Price for
ZI Threadneedle Japanese Smaller Companies JPY 152.560 1.780 05 September 2006


Charges are
http://www.zurichintlife.com/con_assets/live/japsc.pdf

Plus
Cost on Cashing in on policy

Overall a killer
If invested in a Nikkei ETf , return would be a lot
better

Years I had no experience and have learned my lesson
Look up no-load funds (if you`re an USA citizen)
http://www.fundadvice.com/explode.html

Look up ETF (if USA citizen and foreigner)
http://yahoo.smartmoney.com/etf/

AVOID Zurich/Magellan etc !!
They`re making huge profits on guess who!!

If you`ve no experience and can`t handle money , then
go ahead and use them

[phxphoto]

Originally Posted by Gest

Are they still a better bet than the index funds if you aren't a frequent trader? .... It seems to me like ETFs can be traded much like shares but I'd be looking to hold onto whatever I'm buying for at least a couple of years so am I missing some of the other benefits of ETFs?

If you're going to buy and hold, go with the Index Fund. You'll most likely get an automatic dividend re-investment so you can compound the capital gains easier.

I like (and use) ETFs just because I can manage them in the same account I use for my stock holdings (Ameritrade or TD Ameritrade these days). It is a personal preference, but I just like keeping everything in one place...easier to manage. You can probably get stock in one of the mutual fund companies, but they'll charge you more than the online brokers to buy (Ameritrade is like $10/trade versus $35+/trade if you're buying stock in a Fidelity account, for example).

If I were to ever by an actively managed fund, I'd probably go directly to the fund company and setup an account for the same reasons above. The fund company will be cheaper to buy from than the online broker.

Doubt I'll do this though. Something like 70% of all actively managed funds do worse than their respective benchmark index...

[tanmedia]

Originally Posted by naughton

Lets Look at Zurich Fund
http://www.zurichintlife.com/templat...&onid=157&rg=6

Price for
ZI Threadneedle Japanese Smaller Companies JPY 152.560 1.780 05 September 2006


Charges are
http://www.zurichintlife.com/con_assets/live/japsc.pdf

Plus
Cost on Cashing in on policy

Overall a killer
If invested in a Nikkei ETf , return would be a lot
better

Years I had no experience and have learned my lesson
Look up no-load funds (if you`re an USA citizen)
http://www.fundadvice.com/explode.html

Look up ETF (if USA citizen and foreigner)
http://yahoo.smartmoney.com/etf/

AVOID Zurich/Magellan etc !!
They`re making huge profits on guess who!!

If you`ve no experience and can`t handle money , then
go ahead and use them

-- You're right. It's a crap fund. However, there are plenty of Zurich funds that have returns like the HSBC China Equity fund that has outperformed. It gives you access to funds focused on hot markets like China, India, East Europe, gold, energy, Islam..... The point of investing with Zurich is that it enables you to make regular payments into funds that the small investor cannot realistically access.

I'm not making excuses for the finance industry. I do agree that we all need to educate ourselves more. If you're not happy with the plan, you have two options:

1.) Pull out and lose a lot of money

2.) Commit to a minimum payment and see the plan out. With a sensible strategy, you WILL benefit in the long run.

[naughton]

Hi tanmedia
I agree with you to pull out or do the minimum investment

But my overall point is that you`ve no control

If you say that you invest in a China Fund and
one day , the country is going down in a bad way
due to government etc , there is no way to get out

But with ETF(if they have similar fund) , you`ve control
and your cost yearly is a lot less

With mutual funds , you`re losing on compound etc.

[tanmedia]

Originally Posted by naughton

Hi tanmedia
I agree with you to pull out or do the minimum investment

But my overall point is that you`ve no control

If you say that you invest in a China Fund and
one day , the country is going down in a bad way
due to government etc , there is no way to get out

But with ETF(if they have similar fund) , you`ve control
and your cost yearly is a lot less

With mutual funds , you`re losing on compound etc.

-- I disagree. The secret to countering fluctuations in different markets/
sectors is diversification. It all depends how you think the market will
perform. I've tripled my investments in China (including a Zurich fund)
and I still feel bullish over the long haul. You can't base a whole portfolio on China, but if it collapses overnight, at least you've got other eggs in your basket.

My attitude is that you should take an aggressive approach with Zurich funds. You need to be looking at 100%+ returns over 5-year+ periods to make it work. If you can do that over 2/3 of your funds, you're going to keep on top of things. Sounds pretty ominous, but that's the reality. Keep your payments to a minimum and think of it as grey beard money.

These companies still need to provide over the long term or they would go out of business. The customers who surrender their funds before the end of the term don't matter because the company can counter their complaints with their lack of patience. If all their clients felt like they were getting shafted, they couldn't remain in business. That being said, the industry needs a massive shake up.

I totally agree with you that the small investor gets flogged by fees and we should avoid them as much as possible. If ETFs are for you, go for it. I'm also a big fan. Fortunately, I'm in a position where my commitments to institutional investing are minimal and I think that is the best way to keep it.

[Plats]

Originally Posted by Gest

Are they still a better bet than the index funds if you aren't a frequent trader? I'm trying to decide between the two and hear a lot of noise about ETFs but their advantage seems to be in not penalising short term investors. It seems to me like ETFs can be traded much like shares but I'd be looking to hold onto whatever I'm buying for at least a couple of years so am I missing some of the other benefits of ETFs?

The biggest difference between index funds and ETFs is that you have to pay a broker every time you buy more shares of an ETF, whereas you don’t have to with [no-load] index funds. And as mentioned, distributions (mostly dividends) can be added automatically to an index fund.

So, if you want to buy a lump sum ETFs may be better for you, multiple purchases cheaper with an index fund. Besides that, maintenance fees may be a little less with ETFs.