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Punishing Dissent: post 'The Cove' fallout and goings on in Taiji

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  • Punishing Dissent: post 'The Cove' fallout and goings on in Taiji

    Not sure where to post this ... but I was wondering what the objective overview was about the post 'The Cove' fall out and generally goings on in Taiji.

    You'll remember from last year, or the year before, there was a bit of a hullabaloo about a movie on the slaughter of dolphins in Taiji. Our beloved media whores Sea Shepherd sent some foreign bigots armed with big sticks down to harass and insult the locals.

    This year, I read, the debacle goes on. The foreigners seem to have split into different gangs, basically those who like harassing and insulting the locals taking sides with the anti-Japan Sea Shepherd, and those who don't like harassing and insulting the locals taking sides with the pro-Japan and Cove star Ric O'Barry.


    The latest news is that the State or Prefecture has spent a couple of million dollars or so on raising security in the village and Wakayama police have banged up one Sea Shepherd followers for the usual '23 days without any charges'. Presumably to politely dissuade them from coming back. The arrest has made the local and international news.


    The whole issue, to me, seems to have died from the Japanese consciousness post Tsunami and Fukushima. It appears to have become even more of a non-issue.

    But there are issues which concern me as a foreigner in Japan, as it seems from the authorities' point of view that all foreigners are lumped together as one, and procedure is being abused.

    Most commentators think the '23 days without any charges' is an anomaly amongst developed nations. Perhaps Japanese society needs it to deal with its criminal underworlds and illegal immigrants. Perhaps the Japanese State just enjoys having it as a cheap, efficient persuader. Perhaps it is just a hangover from another age. I don't know but would like to know more about the reasons behind it ...

    It seems the guy in question basically did nothing at all and is being held purely on a witness statement of an employee of the dolphin trade industry. I would not have though that counted as a disinterested party. Say, at worst, the activist brushed passed someone ... I'd hate to be banged up for 23 days for just doing so. Even a push and shove argument in the West would get you nothing more than a caution.

    Obviously, 23 days to be found innocent could actually destroy a business or a career and I would not like to be set up to have mine destroyed in that way.


    There are other more subtle things going on. Any foreigner turning up in Taiji is being requested not just to show their documents (fair enough, that is the law) but also fill in a police questionnaire. That too concerns me ... why and under what law? As a matter of principle, it seems to be an invasion of privacy and a dangerous precedent ... a scanning for thought crimes. It does not seem to apply to Japanese going down there.

    I appreciate Sea Shepherd and the issue as a whole issue raises partisans on both sides. I am not really interested in taking sides and getting involved in that.

    However, I am interested in objective views about what effects, if any, it is all having in the Japan you know and see. Where the Japan you know stands on the matter.

    For those of you who have not following, basically 20 odd local fishermen slaughter about 1,200 dolphins a year in what is a pretty brutal fashion, it has to be said. They make considerably more money selling nice looking ones to trainers in Taiji, who then sell them for even more money to aquariums mostly around Asia but also in some pretty undeveloped places. About 20,000 dolphins and porpoises are killed all around Japan each year, mostly it seems on the pretext that they are eating the fishermen's fish and so therefore are pest to be eradicated.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by beentheredonethat View Post
    About 20,000 dolphins and porpoises are killed all around Japan each year.
    Thanks.
    Really? TWENTY THOUSAND????....where does that figure come from?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by twelvedown View Post
      Really? TWENTY THOUSAND????....where does that figure come from?
      Someone on another board (not related to Japan) was trying to tell me it's a yearly "dolphin killing festival."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by twelvedown View Post
        Really? TWENTY THOUSAND????....where does that figure come from?
        An increasing number of dolphin welfare advocacy groups such as Earth Island Institute, Surfers for Cetaceans and Dolphin Project Inc., dispute these official Japanese claims. These groups assert that the number of dolphins and porpoises killed is much higher, estimated at 25,000 per year.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_drive_hunting

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        • #5
          Originally posted by twelvedown View Post
          Really? TWENTY THOUSAND????....where does that figure come from?

          take the number of kangaroos culled annually divided by the temperature on the day they were killed....

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ken44 View Post
            An increasing number of dolphin welfare advocacy groups such as Earth Island Institute, Surfers for Cetaceans and Dolphin Project Inc., dispute these official Japanese claims. These groups assert that the number of dolphins and porpoises killed is much higher, estimated at 25,000 per year.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_drive_hunting
            Wow. Now we're up to 25,000!
            where do these figures come from? Where do these 24,000 other dolphins that aren't killed at THE COVE killed?

            That's close to 500 a week!
            Where?!

            What a load of crap.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd like to go to Taiji and cheer the fishermen on. March with signs that say stuff like,

              「イルカを殺!」 (kill the dolphins)
              「イルカを苦しませろ!」(make the dolphins suffer)
              「イルカより人間が大事!」(humans are more important that dolphins)

              etc. etc.

              Why? If the police kick me out, then they are targeting foreigners - or anyone with a picket sign (but is that legal?) and if they don't kick me out, then it will be fun to upload it on YouTube showing what Taichi is all about.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't know, that reads like exactly the kind of idiotic comment I was hoping to avoid. I was hoping to get a real overview. What I would say to you, hml, is go walk your talk ... or end up appearing all mouth. I'll not stop you.
                Originally posted by twelvedown View Post
                Wow. Now we're up to 25,000! where do these figures come from? Where do these 24,000 other dolphins that aren't killed at THE COVE killed? That's close to 500 a week!
                The figures are based on MAFF/Prefectural quotas which are (approx) 2,200 for the Taiji drive hunt, and around 17,700 for the rest of Japan. Quotas change from year to year, full quotas are not always caught, so a figure between the 20,000 to 25,000 mark is not unreasonable to suggest.

                In 1988, it was over 40,000 by their own figures..

                Actually, I think the killings in the rest of Japan are equally gruesome to those in Taiji. They are just harder to document, and less geographically condensed.

                Small cetaceans (dolphins and porpoises) are hand speared through the body and left to die slowly, attached to buoys so their corpses don't sink. Ships come back to pick them up later. I don't know if it has ever been properly documented. Others will be caught in fishing nets as bycatch, and it is reasonable to assume accounting is not spot on, therefore a 25,000 estimate sounds about right. The absolute specifics are not so important.

                The hunting takes place from the other traditional whaling ports. I cannot believe, from an economic point of view, that it makes any sense to send a fishing boat and harpoonist out to hand spear porpoises. It seems like a hell of a lot of outlay for very little return.

                No Kangaroos are killed in Japan to my knowledge, so that is a misleading statement, but MAFF is considering starting up hunting seals and seal lions again for the same reason as they kill cetaceans ... they are seen as competition against the fisherman for the dwindling number of fish stocks in Japanese waters.

                It seems bizarro to me. South Park has never seemed more real. Yes, they really did or do go around with spears stabbing them.


                Have there been any anti-Sea Shepherd, anti-Conservationist protests in Taiji or does everyone not really care?
                Last edited by beentheredonethat; 2012-01-10, 12:36 AM.

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                • #9
                  Go snorkeling around a seal colony. No fish. No ugly fish, no pretty fish, no eating fish.


                  Kill the sea rats. Kill as many as you can.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ThaHamburgler View Post
                    Go snorkeling around a seal colony. No fish. No ugly fish, no pretty fish, no eating fish.
                    Do you think fish would be stupid enough to hang around a large colony of predators. That would be like a herd of gazelle walking up to a hungry pride of lions wearing signs saying "Eat me!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by edin日本 View Post
                      Do you think fish would be stupid enough to hang around a large colony of predators. That would be like a herd of gazelle walking up to a hungry pride of lions wearing signs saying "Eat me!"

                      And as a meat eater, would you live in the middle of a barren desert or in the middle of a fruitful valley.


                      You go where the resources are. If you see a large colony of seals, there had to be a large amount of fish to make that large colony large and kept fed.


                      Here in San Diego we got a seal colony that moved into a man-made pristine snorkeling area called The Childrens Pool. The city wanting to attract winter tourists to La Jolla broke their deed of trust made with Ellen Browning Scripps in 1928~ and allowed the seal colony to stay and grow. Now it's a cess pool. No fish, ____ty water, and territorial seals. Theres a reason it was named the Children's Pool, but I'd like to see what parents will allow their children in there now. Deed of trust to keep and maintain the pool for the use of children...

                      I went snorkeling there as a kid. It was awesome. Feed fish peas, learn about the ocean, the experience cannot be assessed in monetery value. Heres what it used to look like.




                      And here it is now.





                      Oh ya, save the seals, if we dont construct sea walls and make beaches for hte seals, then who will?!


                      Club em all




                      God that felt good :> America could use a little stiffining of that upper ____ lip

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ThaHamburgler View Post
                        Here in San Diego we got a seal colony ...
                        ThaHamburgler, just few posts ago you were telling us that you'd just got married to a 40 year old in Japan. Seal meat is, basically, inedible.

                        As interesting as the San Diego problem is, a bill allowing the city to declare the beach a marine sanctuary was passed and signed by then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and the seals have become a tourist magnet, if you cannot be mature and stick on topic ... could you at least be a little more stylish or funny?

                        In truth though, it is not entirely unrelated. The Cove where the fishermen do the slaughter is in a nature reserve and during the summer, weirdly, it is use by families for swimming in. It is also very beautiful.

                        The Fisheries Agency are keen to promote "co-existence" with whales and seals. "Co-existence" with dead ones in burgers.

                        As a matter of principle, I'd be against a nature reserve being used as a private slaughter yard, or dipping my children in one.

                        Originally posted by ThaHamburgler View Post
                        Just got married, but the girl is 40. I'm 14 years the younger. First, what is marriage like in Japan? Also, things are cool now, but that may not be the case in the future, who knows. But if things were to turn sour, what's it like to get a divorce in Japan?

                        Personally not hoping for kids as I apparently got one late October from a fling in January. Don't really wanna get locked in for child support,
                        It turns out the problems in San Diego is not about kids after all ... it is a gang of spear fishermen and hunters traveling to La Jolla from East county who want to stir trouble and ruin it for everybody. Similar again to the 26 or so guys in Taiji out of a village of 3,000.
                        Last edited by beentheredonethat; 2012-01-10, 10:29 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by beentheredonethat View Post
                          I don't know, that reads like exactly the kind of idiotic comment I was hoping to avoid. I was hoping to get a real overview. What I would say to you, hml, is go walk your talk ... or end up appearing all mouth. I'll not stop you.
                          Well, no more "all mouth" than most of GP.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by beentheredonethat View Post
                            For those of you who have not following, basically 20 odd local fishermen slaughter about 1,200 dolphins a year in what is a pretty brutal fashion, it has to be said.
                            Thanks.


                            FACT:


                            Dolphins are fantastically delicious.
                            Last edited by YokohamaTommy; 2012-01-10, 01:47 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by YokohamaTommy View Post
                              Dolphins are fantastically delicious.
                              Really? I have never tried. Have you?

                              Most Japanese I have spoken to have never done so either or say they don't like it. They say it is much stronger than whale which they are not fond of unless it is heavily battered and cover with sauce.

                              I think there are limits to what I would eat. It is wrong to put animals to unnecessary suffering even if you are going to eat them, and this killing really is into the barbaric. Like farmers herding deer into a quarry with 4x4s and then wading in with spears and axes to kill them.

                              The environmental ethics of it are unsound and I am not keen on supporting dolphins shows either.

                              But your comment comes across as trolling ... sorry, I thought it might be possible to get some genuine feedback here.

                              Comment

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