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Was Fukushima Preventable ?

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  • Was Fukushima Preventable ?

    According to a recent story in the Asahi Shimbun, Fukushima could have been prevented. I'm not sure if someone has posted about this before, but it's a well written story and a must read. However, it may provoke much anger among the residents of Japan. If anyone else has further information, could you add it here or start a new thread even ? There's so much out there that it's hard to sort through what's what sometimes.

    " Operators could have prevented two meltdowns at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant last year if the site had more powerful emergency equipment and if supervisors had been able to more directly command workers, according to an analysis of staff teleconference videos by The Asahi Shimbun. "

    http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311dis...AJ201209050060

  • #2
    There was a documentary on the TV a few weeks back about this. It appears that U.S. nuclear plants are far far more prepared for nuclear disasters than Japan was.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TIKI View Post
      According to a recent story in the Asahi Shimbun, Fukushima could have been prevented. I'm not sure if someone has posted about this before, but it's a well written story and a must read. However, it may provoke much anger among the residents of Japan. If anyone else has further information, could you add it here or start a new thread even ? There's so much out there that it's hard to sort through what's what sometimes.

      " Operators could have prevented two meltdowns at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant last year if the site had more powerful emergency equipment and if supervisors had been able to more directly command workers, according to an analysis of staff teleconference videos by The Asahi Shimbun. "

      http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311dis...AJ201209050060
      The fact that the disaster could have been prevented is old news; the official report described it as a man-made and avoidable disaster. Here's just one link.

      http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07...-expert-panel/

      As for your article provoking anger, it seems to be difficult to provoke most Japanese residents to be angry about public scandals.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by thefg
        i dont think this is necessarily true as was clearly demod with 3 mile island


        daichi was a disaster waiting to happen for one simple fundamental mind boggingly stupid reason.....


        you dont put emergency back up pumps (that are to be used in case of accident such as but not only a tsunami wiping out the primary pumps) underground. You put them high up in an area that cant be made inaccessible from debris AND OR in a waterproof room. either from an engineering perspective is not a challenge and prity friggin obvious!
        What did I say in the other thread about your inability to be accurate, organise information and express yourself in written English?

        The emergency pumps were not the critical problem. The main pumps didn't stop because of the tsunami - they stopped because they didn't have any electricity. Emergency power for the pumps and everything else needed to manage a power station was to come from the emergency generators and they were in the basement, got flooded and were wrecked.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brown Cow View Post
          What did I say in the other thread about your inability to be accurate, organise information and express yourself in written English?

          The emergency pumps were not the critical problem. The main pumps didn't stop because of the tsunami - they stopped because they didn't have any electricity. Emergency power for the pumps and everything else needed to manage a power station was to come from the emergency generators and they were in the basement, got flooded and were wrecked.
          What does it take.......a rocket scientist ....to design a nuclear power plant ?!?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Old Style View Post
            What does it take.......a rocket scientist ....to design a nuclear power plant ?!?
            I don't know but it takes someone who knows the difference between a pump and a generator.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Brown Cow View Post
              I don't know but it takes someone who knows the difference between a pump and a generator.
              Do you think that was a multiple choice question on the " Homer Simpson How To Operate A Nulclear Reactor Test " ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by thefg
                not going to waste of time
                ["Acton and Hibbs asserted that TEPCO and NISA were aware of European practices such as protecting diesel generators and batteries by moving them to higher ground or placing them in watertight bunkers, establishing watertight connections between emergency power supplies and key safety systems, and improving protection for seawater pumps that are used to transfer heat from the reactors and to cool diesel generators. The seawater pumps at Fukushima were flooded and rendered inoperable by the tsunami. "
                source: http://www.physicstoday.org/daily_ed...le_experts_say
                again you made assumptions - i was talking about the sea water pumps (back up pumps to be used when/if main fail) i was not talking about generators
                ive added you to my ignore list because your an idiot
                What you stated above is so simple and clear, even I, a mere 2nd grader can understand it. So what in god's name were all of these highly " educated " folks thinking ?! ( And would it be wrong to hang them in public or can we just burn them ? )

                Comment


                • #9
                  Try this for a simple but accurate summary:

                  "The remaining reactors shut down automatically after the earthquake, and emergency generators came online to control electronics and coolant systems. The tsunami broke the reactors' connection to the power grid and also resulted in flooding of the rooms containing the emergency generators. Consequently those generators ceased working, causing eventual power loss to the pumps that circulate coolant water in the reactor. The pumps then stopped working, causing the reactors to overheat due to the high decay heat that normally continues for a short time, even after a nuclear reactor shut down. The flooding and earthquake damage hindered external assistance."

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...clear_disaster

                  The emergency coolant pumps may well have been destroyed but that was not nearly as important as losing all power to the plant. So this statement from the fugg is not only semi literate but completely inaccurate:

                  "daichi was a disaster waiting to happen for one simple fundamental mind boggingly stupid reason.....


                  you dont put emergency back up pumps (that are to be used in case of accident such as but not only a tsunami wiping out the primary pumps) underground. You put them high up in an area that cant be made inaccessible from debris AND OR in a waterproof room. either from an engineering perspective is not a challenge and prity friggin obvious!"

                  Very few man made disasters happen because of one simple reason. It is almost always a complex chain of events and there are always a number of things that have to go wrong in succession to produce the disaster. However, it is possible to identify major and minor causes. Loss of all electrical power due to flooding was crucial. Without electricity there is not much you can do with a nuclear power plant.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brown Cow View Post
                    Try this for a simple but accurate summary:

                    "The remaining reactors shut down automatically after the earthquake, and emergency generators came online to control electronics and coolant systems. The tsunami broke the reactors' connection to the power grid and also resulted in flooding of the rooms containing the emergency generators. Consequently those generators ceased working, causing eventual power loss to the pumps that circulate coolant water in the reactor. The pumps then stopped working, causing the reactors to overheat due to the high decay heat that normally continues for a short time, even after a nuclear reactor shut down. The flooding and earthquake damage hindered external assistance."

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...clear_disaster

                    The emergency coolant pumps may well have been destroyed but that was not nearly as important as losing all power to the plant. So this statement from the fugg is not only semi literate but completely inaccurate:

                    "daichi was a disaster waiting to happen for one simple fundamental mind boggingly stupid reason.....


                    you dont put emergency back up pumps (that are to be used in case of accident such as but not only a tsunami wiping out the primary pumps) underground. You put them high up in an area that cant be made inaccessible from debris AND OR in a waterproof room. either from an engineering perspective is not a challenge and prity friggin obvious!"

                    Very few man made disasters happen because of one simple reason. It is almost always a complex chain of events and there are always a number of things that have to go wrong in succession to produce the disaster. However, it is possible to identify major and minor causes. Loss of all electrical power due to flooding was crucial. Without electricity there is not much you can do with a nuclear power plant.
                    Do you feel it was too out of date or poorly designed from the start ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It seems as though the " plan to use an array of powerful air cannons in an undersea seismic study near a Central California nuclear power plant has federal and state officials juggling concerns over marine life with public safety. "

                      " There is a $64 million, ratepayer-funded effort to understand seismic threats to the plant"
                      I could have told them that earthquakes are bad for nuclear plants for far less money !

                      ...." The plan has intensified since the disastrous 2011 Tohoku quake and tsunami, which disabled reactors at Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant. Quake experts were surprised by the 9.0-magnitude quake on a fault that scientists did not believe would produce a quake stronger than 8.0. "

                      Ok, not to be a stickler, but wouldn't an 8.0 be, like really bad too ?

                      Does anyone know more about this plan ?

                      http://news.yahoo.com/officials-mull...150645033.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The pumps were disabled by the tsunami so even if they had power backup it would still have made no difference. Gunderson explains this in one of his videos... No water, no cooling the reactors.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by madmax_returns View Post
                          The pumps were disabled by the tsunami so even if they had power backup it would still have made no difference. Gunderson explains this in one of his videos... No water, no cooling the reactors.
                          But basically, power plants on or near fault lines is a bad thing, right ?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know if we should laugh or cry :

                            TOKYO —
                            Recent tapes released have sent ripples across Japanfs news programs showing first-hand Tokyo Electric Power Companyfs (TEPCO) handling of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster. Many were outraged over TEPCO managementfs muddled communications with plant director, an increasingly frustrated Masao Yoshida.

                            Among the hours and hours of footage, therefs one particularly odd incident in which one of the
                            largest electric companies in Japan couldnft seem to get their hands on a battery. In fact, it took about 24 hours and trip to the hardware store to buy it while on the brink of meltdown.

                            With reactors 2 and 3 on the verge of having a meltdown, the on-site team had to open a valve to release coolant into the reactors. However, with the extensive damage to the plant, an ordinary car battery was needed to power the valve controls.

                            The following dialog is taken from a TV program which outlines what took place on March 13 with Fukushima Daiichi and TEPCO management trying to get a battery.

                            Fukushima Daiichi Materials Team
                            gWe donft have enough cash. Sorry to ask but if itfs possible could you lend it to me? Wefd appreciate it.h

                            Head Office
                            Akio Komori, Managing Director (at the time)
                            gI wonder if someonefs using the helicopter today. Whofs using the helicopter? We can use a helicopter to carry the cash.h

                            Narrator
                            gUnits 2 and 3 are also in danger of meltdown. They had to connect a car battery to the valve to activate the reactor coolant. However, there wasnft even enough cash to buy onecFinally after 10 hoursch

                            Head Office
                            Akio Komori, Managing Director (at the time)
                            gWe sent a person from the head office to [Fukushimafs] off-site center carrying a lot of cash. You can get it from the off-site center.h

                            Fukushima Daiichi
                            Masao Yoshida, Fukushima Director (at the time)
                            gOkay, I should write an IOU for this, right?h

                            Head Office
                            Akio Komori, Managing Director (at the time)
                            gNo need. Ifll take your word for it.h

                            Fukushima Daiichi
                            Masao Yoshida
                            gGot it. Thank you.h

                            Narrator
                            However, instructions to evacuate beyond 20km of Fukushima have already gone out. There were no shops open nearby.

                            Fukushima Daiichi Materials Team
                            gWe are working hard to procure [a battery] but our best chance is in Iwaki which is 6 hours away. We request your assistance, Head Office.h

                            Off-Site Center
                            gToday we went to Iwaki to get a battery but couldnft get one.h

                            Fukushima Daiichi Materials Team
                            gTomorrow wefre going to a home center to buy stuff. If therefs anything you want bring us a list or tell usc whateverc just come down.h

                            Narrator
                            gItfs unbelievable that they would go shopping for supplies at a home center during the worst nuclear disaster in the world.h

                            http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...e-the-next-day

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This doesn't say much for the Japanese ability to think out of the box. I would have opened the hood of the nearest car. Battery found.

                              Comment

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