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A: My wife died. B:I'm sorry ‚Á‚Ä“ú–{Œê‚Å‚È‚ñ‚ÆŒ¾‚¤?

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  • A: My wife died. B:I'm sorry ‚Á‚Ä“ú–{Œê‚Å‚È‚ñ‚ÆŒ¾‚¤?

    How does this sort of conversation transpire in Japanese? I guess its not a real apology in any sense, but more of a verbal expression of sympathy. Although it could be an apology for bringing up the topic, but in my experience I don't see that sense as the most common usage. Rather, it seems just a reflexive expression of sympathy, or what have you. I know the Japanese are a superstitious bunch, so maybe they generally avoid speaking of the dead, but I'm sure there exists at least one appropriate phrase that corresponds to what we say in English.

  • #2
    Originally posted by yooma View Post
    How does this sort of conversation transpire in Japanese? I guess its not a real apology in any sense, but more of a verbal expression of sympathy. Although it could be an apology for bringing up the topic, but in my experience I don't see that sense as the most common usage. Rather, it seems just a reflexive expression of sympathy, or what have you. I know the Japanese are a superstitious bunch, so maybe they generally avoid speaking of the dead, but I'm sure there exists at least one appropriate phrase that corresponds to what we say in English.
    ‚²D—l‚Å‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚· (‚²‚µ‚イ‚µ‚傤‚³‚Ü‚ ‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚·j

    ‚¨‰÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚·@ i‚¨‚­‚â‚Ý‚à‚¤‚µ‚ ‚° Ü‚·j

    My condolences

    Comment


    • #3
      ‚½‚¢‚Ö‚ñ‚Å‚·‚Ë would be enough

      Or a simple ‚ª‚ñ‚΂Á‚ĂˁI

      Comment


      • #4
        ‚»‚ê‚ÍŽc”O‚¾‚ˁB@‚Å‚à A¯‚̐”‚قǏ—©‚Í‚¢‚é ñ‚¾‚©‚ç‚ˁB

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Genkii View Post
          ‚½‚¢‚Ö‚ñ‚Å‚·‚Ë would be enough

          Or a simple ‚ª‚ñ‚΂Á‚ĂˁI
          No it wouldn't. Rei answered properly before you. Your post can be ignored.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Genkii View Post
            ‚½‚¢‚Ö‚ñ‚Å‚·‚Ë would be enough

            Or a simple ‚ª‚ñ‚΂Á‚ĂˁI
            No, never say that.

            I tend to use "zannen" in my sentence rather than ‚²D—l (gosyuusyou-sama).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Genkii View Post
              ‚½‚¢‚Ö‚ñ‚Å‚·‚Ë would be enough

              Or a simple ‚ª‚ñ‚΂Á‚ĂˁI
              douchebag.

              disrespectful answer regarding the subject.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wernst View Post
                douchebag.

                disrespectful answer regarding the subject.
                also shows that he can't speak Japanese properly, though he thinks he can.


                Maybe the husband doesn't want to Šæ’£‚Á‚āAhe wants his dead wife back.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chromedome View Post
                  ‚»‚ê‚ÍŽc”O‚¾‚ˁB@‚Å‚à A¯‚̐”‚قǏ—©‚Í‚¢‚é ñ‚¾‚©‚ç‚ˁB
                  Right, you can always find another woman. This is almost as bad but not quite.

                  Not something you say to a grieving husband.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chromedome View Post
                    ‚»‚ê‚ÍŽc”O‚¾‚ˁB@‚Å‚à A¯‚̐”‚قǏ—©‚Í‚¢‚é ñ‚¾‚©‚ç‚ˁB
                    Hee Hee. The Spirit of Kuma Chan smiles upon you, my son.



                    Originally posted by Since1990 View Post

                    I tend to use "zannen" in my sentence rather than ‚²D—l (gosyuusyou-sama).
                    That is almost as flippant as Genkoid's idiotic response. Zannen is getting a parking ticket, or rain at a picnic.


                    Of course, I know you don't mean it in any such way.

                    Japanese is a ritual language: just follow the rules.

                    In which case, whatever Rei Rei wrote.



                    BTW, the insertion of idosyncracies into codified ritual exchanges is a sign of childishness, not individuality.

                    If you really were a fully developed individual, after all, you would respect the form, rather than F with it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kurogane View Post
                      Hee Hee. The Spirit of Kuma Chan smiles upon you, my son.





                      That is almost as flippant as Genkoid's idiotic response. Zannen is getting a parking ticket, or rain at a picnic.


                      Of course, I know you don't mean it in any such way.

                      Japanese is a ritual language: just follow the rules.

                      In which case, whatever Rei Rei wrote.



                      BTW, the insertion of idosyncracies into codified ritual exchanges is a sign of childishness, not individuality.

                      If you really were a fully developed individual, after all, you would respect the form, rather than F with it.
                      Yeah, I know what you mean. Suppose it depends on who you're saying it to. I've seen Japanese people use zannen (but not just by saying "zannen!!"), but you wouldn't won't to say that in a letter.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I could see an obasan saying something along the lines of "–{“–‚ÉŽc”O‚Å‚·‚Ë", but it would probably come after they had already said the proper formalities.
                        Last edited by Effected After; 2012-06-20, 03:47 PM. Reason: used wrong word

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Genkii View Post
                          ‚½‚¢‚Ö‚ñ‚Å‚·‚Ë would be enough

                          Or a simple ‚ª‚ñ‚΂Á‚ĂˁI
                          There's a time to be a smart-@ss troll with a wisecrack, and there's a time to shut your trap and leave the thread to serious answers only. It's too bad you don't know the difference.

                          Unhappily,
                          A.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Agree with what Rei said. You could add@‚±‚Ì‚½‚т́@to ‚²D—l or@S‚æ‚è to ‚¨‰÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚· as well. You could even combine them together as@‚±‚Ì‚½‚Ñ‚Í‚²D—l‚ ‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚·BS‚æ‚肨‰ ÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚·B

                            However, to me, ‚²D—l‚Å‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚· and ‚¨‰÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚· seem very formal and are something you'd probably only say or hear at a funeral or wake. They seem very ceremonial and distant sounding so you probably should be careful regarding when and where you use them.

                            Something so formal might not work as well around the office or in a more casual situation with somebody you know. Maybe it that case, it would be OK to just to keep things more simple (natural) by saying something like –{“–‚ÉŽc”O‚Å‚·‚Ë, or ‘å•Ï‚Å‚µ‚½‚Ë and then offer some kind words of encouragement such as Œ³‹C‚ðo‚µ‚Ä‚­‚¾‚³‚¢, ‘Ì‚É‚¨‹C‚ð•t‚¯‚Ä‚­‚¾ ³‚¢ or even perhaps even@Šæ’£‚Á‚Ä‚­‚¾‚³‚¢. I guess it all depends on how close you are to the other person and how formal the setting is. Maybe a good thing to do would be to ask a Japanese friend or coworker what they would say in different situations.

                            Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post
                            also shows that he can't speak Japanese properly, though he thinks he can.
                            Good one. Reminds me of this one from another thread.

                            Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post
                            –l‚ª‚í‚´‚í‚´‹N‚«‚点 āA‘å•Ï–À˜f‚µ‚Ü‚µ‚½B ‚É‚·‚Ý‚Ü‚¹‚ñ‚Å‚µ‚½B ‚“ú‘‚­‹N‚«‚È‚¢‚Æ‚¢ ©‚È‚¢‚Æ‚í‚©‚é‚̂ŁA” ½È‚µ‚Ü‚·B
                            Now that one was pretty funny.
                            Last edited by Shimi; 2012-06-20, 07:37 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shimi View Post
                              Agree with what Rei said. You could add@‚±‚Ì‚½‚т́@to ‚²D—l or@S‚æ‚è to ‚¨‰÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚· as well. You could even combine them together as@‚±‚Ì‚½‚Ñ‚Í‚²D—l‚ ‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚·BS‚æ‚肨‰ ÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚·B

                              However, to me, ‚²D—l‚Å‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚· and ‚¨‰÷‚â‚ݐ\‚µã‚°‚Ü‚· seem very formal and are something you'd probably only say or hear at a funeral or wake. They seem very ceremonial and distant sounding so you probably should be careful regarding when and where you use them.

                              Something so formal might not work as well around the office or in a more casual situation with somebody you know. Maybe it that case, it would be OK to just to keep things more simple (natural) by saying something like –{“–‚ÉŽc”O‚Å‚·‚Ë, or ‘å•Ï‚Å‚µ‚½‚Ë and then offer some kind words of encouragement such as Œ³‹C‚ðo‚µ‚Ä‚­‚¾‚³‚¢, ‘Ì‚É‚¨‹C‚ð•t‚¯‚Ä‚­‚¾ ³‚¢ or even perhaps even@Šæ’£‚Á‚Ä‚­‚¾‚³‚¢. I guess it all depends on how close you are to the other person and how formal the setting is. Maybe a good thing to do would be to ask a Japanese friend or coworker what they would say in different situations.
                              Thanks for this post. These context-sensitive phrases seem viable (well at least as far as I know “ú–{Œê). Some questions I want to pose:
                              The word "‚²‚ß‚ñ": Can it be used, for example, as h‚²‚ß‚ñ‚ˁh in this situation?
                              To drop the formality of ‚²D—l‚Å‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚· could one say "D—l‚Å" or something similiar?
                              The word "‚â‚Á‚Ï‚è": If "Œ³‹C‚ðo‚µ‚Ä‚Ë" was admissable, would "‚â‚Á‚ÏŒ³‹C‚ðo‚µ‚Ä‚ " also be permissable?

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