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How do I meet Japanese guys?

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  • Originally posted by monkeywrench View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right. Either that or, there's really no nice way to say this but bear with me, you're not quite as intellectually advanced as you think you are. I don't think you're dumb by any means, but your observations on Japanese stereotypes, variation and relationships, and how you expressed them, while all very thoughtful and not wrong, seem to be real eye openers for you but are actually pretty pedestrian to some of us who have gone a bit longer and deeper. Not that I begrudge inexperience. We all had to go through it and ought to graciously allow others to reinvent the wheel too. But that's hard when they've got a holier-than-thou attitude. "Sophomoric" is the word that comes to mind.
    I would agree that my observations were relatively superficial, as what I said was basically the principle of "there are exceptions to the rule". I was writing in response to ridiculous comments (not just on this particular thread) that reflected a lack of understanding even of this basic concept (i.e. the reason why I say 'people seem to have the attitude that Japanese people are like an alien race'). So I think it is actually an eye-opener for some people, but is far from what I would call an intelligent observation, and is fact quite obvious or "pedestrian" as you put it. (I know you'll think I'm being defensive and trying to pretend I wasn't trying to be thoughtful, but I know my own intention so that's all I need to know). However, even in my one year of experience, I could come up with far more interesting experiences and observations than that, however, with such comments in various threads about how "Japanese people ARE this" or "that", etc, I felt the need to make that observation, and I think that there is a time and place for more interesting discussion. For example, I have studied gender out of my own interest and have an understanding of it from several experiences in my life, something I'd rather not disclose on this forum, but if I'm talking to people who have very superficial views of gender and social norms, (i.e. saying things like there are only two genders - male and female etc) I'll probably talk about things that are pretty straightforward concepts to those that know more. Not because I think other people are completely stupid and that I am better than them, but that it fits the discussion and that for that particular subject, I probably have more knowledge than most in that given situation, which isn't going to be the case for every subject or topic of course. That said, I am sure there are many people who know far more than me and understand Japan on a deeper level from greater experience, and have more experiences/observation either of Japan or of life in general (I am young, 23 years old). I never said I was the fountain of knowledge or intellect, but it seems that I know better than at least some.
    Last edited by Koisomemomiji; 2011-06-29, 05:02 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Koisomemomiji View Post
      I would agree that my observations were relatively superficial, as what I said was basically the principle of "there are exceptions to the rule". I was writing in response to ridiculous comments (not just on this particular thread) that reflected a lack of understanding even of this basic concept (i.e. the reason why I say 'people seem to have the attitude that Japanese people are like an alien race'). So I think it is actually an eye-opener for some people, but is far from what I would call an intelligent observation, and is fact quite obvious or "pedestrian" as you put it. (I know you'll think I'm being defensive and trying to pretend I wasn't trying to be thoughtful, but I know my own intention so that's all I need to know). However, even in my one year of experience, I could come up with far more interesting experiences and observations than that, however, with such comments in various threads about how "Japanese people ARE this" or "that", etc, I felt the need to make that observation, and I think that there is a time and place for more interesting discussion. For example, I have studied gender out of my own interest and have an understanding of it from several experiences in my life, something I'd rather not disclose on this forum, but if I'm talking to people who have very superficial views of gender and social norms, (i.e. saying things like there are only two genders - male and female etc) I'll probably talk about things that are pretty straightforward concepts to those that know more. Not because I think other people are completely stupid and that I am better than them, but that it fits the discussion and that for that particular subject, I probably have more knowledge than most in that given situation, which isn't going to be the case for every subject or topic of course. That said, I am sure there are many people who know far more than me and understand Japan on a deeper level from greater experience, and have more experiences/observation either of Japan or of life in general (I am young, 23 years old). I never said I was the fountain of knowledge or intellect, but it seems that I know better than at least some.
      Right on. Stereotypes abound here, with the oft-missed irony that someone will say "Japanese people are stereotypical thinkers" without comprehending they've just fallen victim to the same thing they're accusing the natives of.

      There may be two types of people (if you'll allow me to generalize) who talk in stereotypes here. One is the perfectly mature and reasonable people who want to make a generalization, and it just goes without saying that of course there's variation and you shouldn't take it too much to heart, but let's face it, if you can't generalize then it's hard to say much of anything culturally worthwhile or insightful, and some generalizations are true after all. The other type is the 13-year-olds - you're actually a little on the old side for the Relationships section here - who really believe the crap and can't think any other way, but you have to remember your audience and if it's them you're trying to convert then you will have to drastically shorten your posts because that bunch of giddy freaks don't have the attention span for more than a sentence or two, using simple words. If the former then your concern amounts to preaching to the chorus, and if the latter then it's falling on deaf ears. Best just to keep tongue firmly in cheek and have some fun poking the idiots, lest the forum turn into a big ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


      So...you've piqued my curiosity. Are you a really a transsexual?

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      • Hmm koisomemomiji I will tell you this... based on what I see (as monkeywrench has pointed out) I think that you:re not dumb but you're probably not where you think you are. Until you realise that I tihnk you will find yourself hardpressed to find a serious lover as the majority of people just aren't enough to fit your standards or if they are don't care enough to stick around and be brow beaten by pretentiousness. you're no wavey man that's for sure.

        I do think you can find someone who can suit you. I definitely think there:s someone out there for you but you:re just going to have to do a lot of looking especially if you don't figure out how to remedy this defensive behavior (among other things).

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        • Originally posted by FreshRamen View Post
          Hmm koisomemomiji I will tell you this... based on what I see (as monkeywrench has pointed out) I think that you:re not dumb but you're probably not where you think you are. Until you realise that I tihnk you will find yourself hardpressed to find a serious lover as the majority of people just aren't enough to fit your standards or if they are don't care enough to stick around and be brow beaten by pretentiousness. you're no wavey man that's for sure.

          I do think you can find someone who can suit you. I definitely think there:s someone out there for you but you:re just going to have to do a lot of looking especially if you don't figure out how to remedy this defensive behavior (among other things).
          So where do you think "I think I am"? Like I already mentioned, I don't think I'm the fountain of knowledge or intellect, there are people with greater experience and age for a start, before even coming to people my own age. Thinking that I was somehow 'above' the majority of people would be in itself stupid, and I view the comparison of people, intellectual or otherwise in social situations as entirely pointless as it's very subjective and personal. I think you assume I have high standards, and that I'd say something like "I wouldn't speak to people below my standard of intellect because they're not worth my time". Firstly, even if I did think like that, I couldn't judge people that quickly, secondly, it isn't for me or anyone to judge who is on my level of 'so called intelligence'. In fact, I have time for most people, because I like to think that I can be open to different people and different ways of thinking, and there's always something somebody can teach me and knows more things about, and vice versa. If I ever use the phrase 'not on my level' it would mean that I didn't click with them and our ways of thinking didn't complement each other, not that they were 'below' me as you probably imagine I think by your mention of my 'pretentiousness'.

          I've never been called defensive in real life, but I have on forums, probably because of people making assumptive judgements and me 'defending' them. That's natural on a forum reading just text and with very limited knowledge of who's writing it. I also fail to see how you can judge somebody's character in a selection of less than 15 posts or so as you have done here. If I take advice, I'll probably take it from honest people who know me better. For me personally, forums are a place of discussion, not for judging each other.

          So...you've piqued my curiosity. Are you a really a transsexual?
          Yes, pretty much (there's the whole issue of intersex and mosaic chromosomes but I'll skip that bit). That's probably more to do with the relationship issue than anything else. I deliberately didn't mention it because I wondered what people would think without me mentioning it. Without me mentioning it, it seems that when people saw me posting about me finding it hard to have relationships, they saw what they thought was the case and that was that I must have some repellent personality trait. Perhaps to some people, I might do, and I just don't realise it, that is entirely possible, but if so, it's never been an issue in making close friends and it doesn't appear to be a major issue in my life, unless literally every person I have met are hiding their opinion and all lying to me. Of course, I have my flaws and I admit that I pride myself on achievement, and that could be seen as some level of arrogance/pretentiousness, but I am aware of this and view it with perspective and don't shove it in people's faces. It's just that 'bit further' beyond friendship that I have difficulty with, but I have had at least SOME luck in this regard. It'd be interesting to see what people would have said if I had made the same 'tone' of posts but said that I had a current boyfriend and had no trouble finding a date.
          Last edited by Koisomemomiji; 2011-06-30, 12:38 AM.

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          • I agree with you that we cannot judge from a few posts your entire personality. We can't judge you and you also cannot judge me based on what we have said in this thread. However you know how important first impressions are and you only have a few moments to make that impression with your ate. Your friends are right in liking you for who you are and they gave you the chance and got to know you better and were rewarded for it. Unfortunately though we're talking about what might have went wrong with those dates and why they didn't really blossom into more. Our response to that I think may shed light into that. They may have sensed defensiveness, or pretentiousness or any number of things on the first try and that led them to not want to pursue.

            I still stand by the things I say but can see where you're coming from too.

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            • Originally posted by FreshRamen View Post
              I agree with you that we cannot judge from a few posts your entire personality. We can't judge you and you also cannot judge me based on what we have said in this thread. However you know how important first impressions are and you only have a few moments to make that impression with your ate. Your friends are right in liking you for who you are and they gave you the chance and got to know you better and were rewarded for it. Unfortunately though we're talking about what might have went wrong with those dates and why they didn't really blossom into more. Our response to that I think may shed light into that. They may have sensed defensiveness, or pretentiousness or any number of things on the first try and that led them to not want to pursue.

              I still stand by the things I say but can see where you're coming from too.
              It's entirely possible that it may be the case when it comes to first impressions. I have had some comments from people who said I initially appeared difficult to talk to but actually became great friends afterwards, so there is some truth in that with some people I have met.

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              • I'd almost like to make this a service. Get girls to pay for me to take them on dates, then critique their dating skills. Do pre and post date interviews, have a faux-date, then give them a written breakdown of my impressions, going over the good, bad and confusing points of the date. A lot of girl could use this. Actually guys too, but I couldn't fake a gay date - I don't know what a real one is supposed to look like.

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                • Originally posted by Koisomemomiji View Post
                  Yes, pretty much (there's the whole issue of intersex and mosaic chromosomes but I'll skip that bit). That's probably more to do with the relationship issue than anything else.
                  Maybe. A gay Aussie friend who had the yellow fever like you complained that Japanese men were very particular about their type and wouldn't stray outside that (and it really wouldn't surprise me if the gay community here was just as discriminatory, if not more so, than the general population) but he ended up happily landing a long-term thing with a hot young Japanese-German stud. A few other gays/bis I know or know of have managed to hit it off with Japanese OK I think. I don't know, I wouldn't rule out personality - the feedback you got here without mentioning sexuality is pretty consistent.

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                  • Originally posted by monkeywrench View Post
                    Maybe. A gay Aussie friend who had the yellow fever like you complained that Japanese men were very particular about their type and wouldn't stray outside that (and it really wouldn't surprise me if the gay community here was just as discriminatory, if not more so, than the general population) but he ended up happily landing a long-term thing with a hot young Japanese-German stud. A few other gays/bis I know or know of have managed to hit it off with Japanese OK I think. I don't know, I wouldn't rule out personality - the feedback you got here without mentioning sexuality is pretty consistent.
                    Well I'm not at all gay but it is true that people like me can get lumped into the gay community by general perception (e.g. I saw a transgendered woman on Japanese TV and a Japanese guy said "that person is gay"). I rarely have personal problems with making friends, or anything like recurring theme of people having problems/disagreements with me to a worrying extent - it's only that further step that eludes me a lot of the time. That said, I have flaws like anyone and there may be something in the way I come across which puts across a wrong impression. Clearly I have initially come across as defensive and pretentious to some, at least through my writing, but I can only state that inside I genuinely do not think I am 'above' or 'more advanced' than other people or feel that prospective partners have to meet 'my high standards'. Thinking that way to me is either self delusion through rationalisation or maybe compensation for subconsciously feeling inferior. I have spent a life of people assuming things about me (i.e based around what gender they thought I was), so I'm not about to assume and judge other people and make arrogant comparisons to myself.

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                    • Originally posted by Koisomemomiji View Post
                      Well I'm not at all gay but it is true that people like me can get lumped into the gay community by general perception (e.g. I saw a transgendered woman on Japanese TV and a Japanese guy said "that person is gay")... I have spent a life of people assuming things about me (i.e based around what gender they thought I was), so I'm not about to assume and judge other people and make arrogant comparisons to myself.
                      Sorry...so let me get this straight (so to speak) - you're a female with somewhat masculine characteristics? Yeah I could see how that might be a problem especially here, where not only very feminine but downright defenseless prepubescent seems to rule the day. I would recommend next time you're in Japan joining your local women's lacrosse team, I'm sure they'd be willing to share some of the tips and tricks they use to pull guys.

                      And if it hasn't been suggested already, never forget the power of plying your date with lots of alcohol.

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                      • Originally posted by monkeywrench View Post
                        Sorry...so let me get this straight (so to speak) - you're a female with somewhat masculine characteristics? Yeah I could see how that might be a problem especially here, where not only very feminine but downright defenseless prepubescent seems to rule the day. I would recommend next time you're in Japan joining your local women's lacrosse team, I'm sure they'd be willing to share some of the tips and tricks they use to pull guys.

                        And if it hasn't been suggested already, never forget the power of plying your date with lots of alcohol.
                        After 5 years of hormone treatment, surgeries and getting over being raised as a male for 19 years, in terms of appearance I'm probably average in terms of m/f characteristics, think of a younger version of Alex Kingston with straighter hair (and similar voice) and that's probably around there. By western standards, probably reasonably feminine, although I don't have the "very feminine but downright defenseless prepubescent" thing going on.
                        I always wonder how guys I know would react by me telling them my past if they had no 'suspicion' beforehand. Judging from what I have seen with other people, reactions seem quite variable.

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