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Information needed to set up a Luxury Bar business

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Shiratama Dango View Post
    Soooooooo...........


    6,000 for two drinks,ouch!

    It has to be a date or I should be already pretty hammered before going there,lol.

    I've a favorite Belgian bar in Kawasaki and a ____tail or a good beer is around 1,500. That's my budget area. :-)
    1 500 Yen ? Hum good to know.
    I guess all my beer will be at price of 1 000 Yen even imported ones. In fact beers will be the call prices.

    Is it this Belgian bar in Kawasaki ? http://drinkbrains.blogspot.fr/2008/...-kawasaki.html
    I really like the inside

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ttokyo View Post
      Sorry, but 'no experience' of running either a bar nor a business in Japan does not look good on any credit application. And then aiming for the high-end market with a lot of set-up cost is not really assuring as well.
      Congratulations for having found somebody for Y 30 mio, but it is likely that any further investor (bank or whatever) will advise you to either start on a lower scale and/or get some experience in the Tokyo bar business first. Or another idea would be to get experience with your girlfriend's parent's restaurant.
      This is wise and good advice that i can't ignore it.
      This make sense i'm not enought experimented as a business man and bartender but i hope some of you can give me some advice in the optimistic way to succeed.
      If i dont, well it will be my bad.
      Unfortunately Sendaï i can't and i'm getting old to run same as a young waiter for a boss.

      I could start with a small business, that is more reasonable as a friend and you said.
      But even for a small business the cost are pretty high and it will take me a life time to payback if the business wont work.
      As a friend of my dad said "it's better to be ruined young to be able to redo later" I'm getting old...
      So i prefer to take high risks with high amound and try the "all in" as poker players can say...

      Well i'm ready to take all the risk and the responsability to do it.
      Off course i'll make a strategy for disaster plan but i'm not counting on it.

      For many other reasons, this is my last card to play, i hope it will be the good one.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ozzijp View Post
        Can't wait.... You certainly seem to know your stuff and your seeking input from the c@cktail elite of GP just puts a 4 stamp mark on the operation.
        Hell yeah

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by sayato View Post
          1 500 Yen ? Hum good to know.
          I guess all my beer will be at price of 1 000 Yen even imported ones. In fact beers will be the call prices.

          Is it this Belgian bar in Kawasaki ? http://drinkbrains.blogspot.fr/2008/...-kawasaki.html
          I really like the inside
          Yes,that's it!!

          They have their original coktails too which are pretty good.

          I've tried lots of their beers but just dunno if they have Delirium there.

          That one f@cked me up good in Belgium. Complete amnesia,lol

          :P

          Comment


          • #35
            Btw, it has a new name now.

            http://tabelog.com/kanagawa/A1405/A140501/14004802/

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by sayato View Post
              So i prefer to take high risks with high amound and try the "all in" as poker players can say...
              Well i'm ready to take all the risk and the responsability to do it.
              For many other reasons, this is my last card to play, i hope it will be the good one.
              Thanks for the frank worlds and explanations. Let's hope your investors will also appreciate this.

              Originally posted by sayato View Post
              About Robot Restaurant...Honestly i dont know how they do with all the charges, maintenance, electricity, etc..
              I think that not all bars are there to make a profit.
              A friend worked in one that was mainly a money-launding operation for drug money. A nights they would pour down bottles of expensive cognac down the toilet and inflate their profits that way. I also doubt that hotel bars with high quality live music such Hyatt's Oak Door can make a profit. They are rather loss leaders who 'enhance' the overall quality of the hotel and profits are made elsewhere. Same with some 'private clubs' such as the Roppongi Hills Club' on top of RH. I also know several small neighborhood bars that rather seem to be run by their owners as a hobby -with almost no employees and just breaking even.

              A last idea : If you are french, would it make sense to stress this and specifically target the french and 'francophone' community ? Like the Irish Community was centering around Paddy Foley's Irish Pub ? The owner was a real master at networking, organizing events, internet presence, etc. etc.
              If you could sucessfully target diplomats or expats on expense accounts who would invite clients , you would have already have gained a large number of steady and repeat customers. Luckily, 'France' is often associated with high-quality food and drink as well as luxury brands, so that should also work in your favor.
              Last edited by ttokyo; 2013-08-30, 10:13 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by zmcnulty View Post
                I know you said you've been here six times but were any of those specifically to do research for this venture?

                If you're serious about doing this I encourage you to spend some time here getting to know your chosen area, what kind of competition you're up against, learn about the industry etc. before making such a large commitment in your financial and personal life. It sounds like you're ambitious but you don't seem to have any competitive advantage in a space that's already very, very crowded. I know it seems like Tokyo has an infinite capacity for new bars but I've seen plenty pop up and disappear 6 months later. You seem to know nothing about running a bar, you claim you'll be competing with hotel bars but your budget is only JPY 30mio (seriously?), and you still have a massive number of details to research further. What do you know about Aoyama, and why do you want to put the bar there instead of say, Omotesando? Or Kichijoji? Daikanyama? What kind of yakuza presence is in the area (this isn't just urban legend; any bar owner in Tokyo can confirm)? This isn't really the kind of stuff you can just find on Google, you need to be here and talk to as many people as possible.

                I personally wouldn't even consider a budget of less than JPY 100mio for this kind of thing.

                Just for reference here are some relatively well-known places in Aoyama:
                http://www.aquavit-japan.com/index.html
                http://tabelog.com/tokyo/A1306/A130602/13058486/
                http://stair-lounge.com/
                http://www.transit-web.com/shop/kita-aoyama-salon/
                I have been 6 time (2~3 month each) in Japan, always in summer, for hollydays only so i try max i can bar and nightclubs there.
                When there i never work or do research for venture but my 2 last trip make me think about "if i live in Japan what is the good and bad point?, etc..."

                You are right, i'm sure some of you can give me return of experience and usefull information to success.
                For the moment i'm seriously thinking of Aoyama because it's a bit the "champs elysees" of Tokyo and after Ginza it's the 2nd area for rich people.
                I analyse a bit and i want to be near some famous competitors in Aoyama Kotto dori Near there http://www.starbucks.co.jp/en/search...o&pref_code=13
                The market research will be done by the French Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Japan http://www.ccifj.or.jp/ i'll pay for that.

                I focus on 30mio to get the best result/expense, if it's 50mio, i'll adapt my project.
                In general Yakuza are more interested about hostess bar, i will not open in kabuki cho area, i will put some camera, i'm a gaijin... But yeah the risk still here.

                Tank you for these links it will be helpfull for my business :

                http://www.aquavit-japan.com/index.html
                Interesting place i didn't know

                http://tabelog.com/tokyo/A1306/A130602/13058486/
                Interesting place i didn't know, my bar could be similar in some way, i mean dim lights but come on cow skin on seats ?? Are they serious ?

                http://stair-lounge.com/
                Interesting place i didn't know, i like the confortable seats.

                http://www.transit-web.com/shop/kita-aoyama-salon/
                This one i know and the website company deliver interesting services.
                Check the Mercedess Restaurant
                http://www.transit-web.com/works/6044/
                and the Audi Cafe
                http://www.transit-web.com/works/5976/

                I also have to consider "NightClubs" as a competitor or place that can boost my business in someway.

                Like this one in Aoyama http://www.lebaron.jp/ as i hear it will close soon so i hope i could retrieve the customers.
                This one is new http://brandtokyo.net/


                If you are interesting to going out, i found this great website, enjoy !
                http://www.tokyo-club.net/


                100mio... Hum... This is huge, i guess it's to hard to get this from investor for a bar and not a big production project.
                And It's hard to payback in 3 years too much montly expenses... More years payback will be less interesting...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ken44 View Post
                  Jesus Christ on a carpet cleaner! You have the ability to con people out of 30 million yen and you're coming here for advice?
                  More advices is better than less.
                  More heads are better than one.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by curing View Post
                    Well, the main stock from products with high durability such as alcohol is included in the 30 000 000 Yen.

                    Really..most posters here would disagree on durability of alcohol...

                    And your first mistake is thinking i will do it on the cheap with faux plastic imitation....give your venture 2-3 months tops and it will be shot down in flames in all the relevant websites.....

                    You just seem like a guy who is desperate to come here.. just marry the chick and voila!

                    You don't have any business experience whatsoever and up to now all is see is just a pipedream.
                    Could you give me an exemple for the durability of alcohol ?

                    To become innovative you must leave the preconceived ideas...
                    Exemple :
                    A aquarium is made with glass, a material rather noble. But if you use Plexiglas instead, this material is cheaper, stronger, more transparent than glass so better effect at the end.
                    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...wai_CR-40A.jpg
                    But i know what you mean and i will not make the error to make my bar "cheap" to save some little money.

                    Spouse visa yeah, this is not my main problem.

                    All entrepreneur born with the necessary experience ? Well most of entrepreneur got no experience and adjusts on the way.
                    But of course in the ideal way and in the best of worlds, a student in hotel school become a waiter then be responsible of a restaurant then open his own restaurant.
                    Anyway there is the unknown factor... So he got a great parcour and student/worker experience but he have bad taste for decoration with horrible yellow wall that make his restaurant not working well...
                    This is an exemple but it can have many other reason.
                    In France i hear the story of IT guys who open their own beer bar and it's a great succes even they dont have the exeperience.
                    Again the unknown factor...

                    By the way what is your main speciality and in what you work now ?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by curing View Post
                      And I forgot to add, maybe the reason why you couldn't cut it in IT was your p.i.s.s.-poor English.... svp... dis-moi que tu ne te consideres pas bilingue (please tell me you don't consider yourself bilingual)
                      Yes sorry my english is not perfect because i'm French, we are famous for that... Tu es Français ou Canadien ?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Shiratama Dango View Post
                        Yes,that's it!!

                        They have their original coktails too which are pretty good.

                        I've tried lots of their beers but just dunno if they have Delirium there.

                        That one f@cked me up good in Belgium. Complete amnesia,lol

                        :P
                        Hey you change your shoes?

                        Delirium Beer with the elephant right? I really like it too.
                        I wonder if they have Desperado beer in Japan and also Desperado Red ?

                        Complete amnesia hehe, japanese get quick drunk because of their metabolism, you should play drink game with them you can earn a lot of money lol

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ttokyo View Post
                          Thanks for the frank worlds and explanations. Let's hope your investors will also appreciate this.


                          I think that not all bars are there to make a profit.
                          A friend worked in one that was mainly a money-launding operation for drug money. A nights they would pour down bottles of expensive cognac down the toilet and inflate their profits that way. I also doubt that hotel bars with high quality live music such Hyatt's Oak Door can make a profit. They are rather loss leaders who 'enhance' the overall quality of the hotel and profits are made elsewhere. Same with some 'private clubs' such as the Roppongi Hills Club' on top of RH. I also know several small neighborhood bars that rather seem to be run by their owners as a hobby -with almost no employees and just breaking even.

                          A last idea : If you are french, would it make sense to stress this and specifically target the french and 'francophone' community ? Like the Irish Community was centering around Paddy Foley's Irish Pub ? The owner was a real master at networking, organizing events, internet presence, etc. etc.
                          If you could sucessfully target diplomats or expats on expense accounts who would invite clients , you would have already have gained a large number of steady and repeat customers. Luckily, 'France' is often associated with high-quality food and drink as well as luxury brands, so that should also work in your favor.
                          I guess one of the keys is to invest huge money in advertising to make profitable the business even if to invest so much money look like a waste.

                          Unfortunately there is a lot of dishonest shenanigansin Tokyo and unfortunately most of them are gaijin...
                          It is because of these people that we have a bad reputation, i'm specialy thinking about roppongi where i hear sad stories like they put drugs in your glass then empty your credit cards, etc...
                          So yeah that make sence there is some mafia under this as well.
                          That's also make sense Japanese be less tolerant with Gaijin even it's not only gaijin at the end.
                          Also they can use us to do the dirty work and look clean...

                          I like this sentence in you visitor profile:
                          Originally posted by ttokyo View Post
                          I don't know any concrete ones but I often see signs 'help wanted' at restaurants, shops, etc. Maybe start checking at foreign restaurants, often they like to have foreign staff for their image.
                          Japanese can use us as animals show like a zoo to make better income.
                          Anyway Tokyo is a city of contradictions. In one hand we do not want the gaijin with the bad reputation sticker and on the other hand the gaijin is wonderful, awesome, useful, etc...
                          Well i'm not here to débatre about it but I'm concient it's like this and i will have to live with that.


                          The French touch is good to atract japanese, use the 'francophone' community is in my plan allready like http://www.francetokyo.com/
                          What i like with the Irish Community is that they are heavy drinker, you open an irish pub you are quite sure to make a good business
                          By the way you knbow the owner of Paddy Foley's Irish Pub ? I can be interested to know about event idears if i can adapt to my project.
                          Also i wonder if you are the bar business or what is your work if i can ask ?
                          About networking i know some of them http://blacklisttokyo.com/
                          I hope they can promote my place when i'll open it.

                          Yes quality is they key dont we talk about quality time ?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Yes, I met him a couple of times, but the bar is closed now. I was also twice invited to main 'German hub' in Tokyo, called Bernd's Bar. They have lots of pictures of visiting celebrities such as politicians or soccer players, but it's not really 'classy'.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ttokyo View Post
                              Yes, I met him a couple of times, but the bar is closed now. I was also twice invited to main 'German hub' in Tokyo, called Bernd's Bar. They have lots of pictures of visiting celebrities such as politicians or soccer players, but it's not really 'classy'.
                              Oh i see, do you know what he become ? Any idears why the bar is closed ?
                              Hum... Bernd's Bar.. This is intereseting, even if it's not class i personaly like this kind of place and i'm sure i can get some cool idears from it.
                              I could do this type of bar and it look more raisonable but there is too much competitors and as a new born i will be eaten quickly.
                              I found this buy searching Bernd's Bar http://www.bento.com/r-beer.html Nice list.

                              Comment

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