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Any non-Japanese heritage individuals here get a job in Japan as a 新卒?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post
    Japan has an expression. ごに入れ歯ごに従 which means "when in Roman do as the Romans do".
    That would be 郷に入れば、郷に従え.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post
      Here is a good place to start. Most of them are not earth-shattering and make you want to run for the exits. Some things may even become annoying.

      http://www.thejapanfaq.com/FAQ-Manners.html

      A couple of my own:

      Parties or social functions can be set with a stop watch. As soon as its 8 o'clock or whatever every packs up and leaves even if its in full swing.
      People do not usually socialise at home so it means having to spend money on restaurants.
      Crowded trains.
      Long meetings that seem to go around in circles.
      Senpai-Kohai. Strict delineation based on seniority age and whether a person comes before you or after you in the company.
      You might be a talented guy with great ideas but there will be older people in the company they listen to first.
      A lot of times people are not prepared to think outside the box but run around like a bunch of chickens in a cage and stick together.
      It takes a long time to make real friends, especially outside the work place, Drinking buddies, , acquaintances co-workers yes. Most I would not consider real friends though.
      What people say and what they actually mean can be two different things. There is the public face and what their real thoughts and intentions are. Learn not to take things at face value.
      Japanese will tell you what they want you to know, and it is a good idea to learn the difference.
      The high cost of living in general.
      Lack of public spaces, greenery.

      If you look Chinese or Asian you will of course blend in, just like a Caucasian stands out like dog's balls. That doesn't make you any more Japanese though. Japan has an expression. ごに入れ歯ごに従 which means "when in Roman do as the Romans do". They will appreciate the effort to fit in but it wont make you any more Japanese. Some foreigners tend to go overboard and try and be more Japanese than the Japanese.
      '

      Thanks for the link!

      I have dealt with most of these situations. Well, except for the social functions stopping exactly on the dot. Everything else is pretty standard and obvious; I would assume every single person who has learned Japanese for 8 years like I have to be aware of these differences.

      As 郷に入れば郷に従え, my goal is not to blend in in order to be Japanese. It's more to not stand out.

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      • #18
        That's a good attitude to take. You'll never be one of them, so trying is futile. But you can make the effort to not cause waves - until you are in a position to safely do so.

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        • #19
          One more additional question.

          If I shouldn't talk to the company about salary before starting work, how do I know what kind of place I can afford? I'm currently looking around at a housing company's website that my future employer introduced me to. Not sure what I should be looking for in a house when I'm not sure how much lower my salary will be than what they mentioned during my application process.

          [Edit]During my study in Japan I had a 18 sq m. place out in Kanagawa near Kawasaki that was the perfect size for me by myself. Wasn't terribly expensive, but the university was subsidizing the rent and utilities. Mostly looking in the Saitama/Kanagawa/Chiba area (don't really want to live in Tokyo-to)
          Last edited by Siitrasn; 2012-03-05, 06:16 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
            One more additional question.

            If I shouldn't talk to the company about salary before starting work, how do I know what kind of place I can afford? I'm currently looking around at a housing company's website that my future employer introduced me to. Not sure what I should be looking for in a house when I'm not sure how much lower my salary will be than what they mentioned during my application process.
            Rule of thumb is not to spend more than 25% of your monthly salary on rent. Also find out if there is any relocation allowance, they may also have a company dormitory for new employees. Typically the rent is dirt-cheap or heavily subsidized if you choose to live in the dorm. Ask also if they act as a guarantor, you could be up for a bill of 4-5 months rent if you have to pay a security deposit and agent's fees.
            Last edited by KansaiBen; 2012-03-05, 06:53 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post
              Rule of thumb is not to spend more than 25% of your monthly salary on rent. Also find out if there is any relocation allowance, they may also have a company dormitory for new employees. Typically the rent is dirt-cheap or heavily subsidized if you choose to live in the dorm. Ask also if they act as a guarantor, you could be up for a bill of 4-5 months rent if you have to pay a security deposit and agent's fees.
              Have already asked.

              1.) No relocation fee. Apparently company policy is to not subsidize anyone (they refer to it as treating everyone fairly).
              2.) I asked about housing, and they never mentioned a dorm. Instead, they introduced me to a company that specializes in finding housing in Japan for foreigners.
              3.) The company they introduced me to also has my future employer's logo on it, but the flier says I can ask the housing company to be my guarantor.

              I haven't asked directly if my future employer will act as guarantor, though. Would if be okay to send them a message discussing this?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
                I haven't asked directly if my future employer will act as guarantor, though. Would if be okay to send them a message discussing this?
                If your employer says no, (I doubt they will as you have to come all the way from the US and you have to live somewhere) then ask them to find you a guarantor company who will act as your guarantor. Normally their fee is one months rent.

                A guarantor is required in case you default on rent and landlord goes to guarantor to receive payment in your stead. Its very common for employers to act as apartment guarantors and in most cases they will cover your key money as well. Its a very stingy employer that doesn't if you are just starting out.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
                  (don't really want to live in Tokyo-to)
                  Why not? You will spend considerably less of your life on a train.

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                  • #24
                    I personally like my time on the train every day. It gives me a chance to read the news or a book, and send off a couple of emails. I find it a nice relaxing start and end to the day.

                    That said I'm not commuting into Tokyo. If I was, I think I would probably feel different.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by wzwzwz View Post
                      Why not? You will spend considerably less of your life on a train.
                      I'm not sure if that's a factor. I'm a fresh graduate with no work experience. I'd rather live frugally for my first 5-10 years paying cheap rent and saving money than living in a place in Tokyo-to where I'll be surrounded by lots of temptations.

                      ...unless I'm doing the math wrong and living in like Meguro-ku or Shibuya-ku is equally viable. At the moment my first choice is Kawasaki City or close to Tamagawa.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
                        I'm not sure if that's a factor. I'm a fresh graduate with no work experience. I'd rather live frugally for my first 5-10 years paying cheap rent and saving money than living in a place in Tokyo-to where I'll be surrounded by lots of temptations.

                        ...unless I'm doing the math wrong and living in like Meguro-ku or Shibuya-ku is equally viable. At the moment my first choice is Kawasaki City or close to Tamagawa.
                        Meguro-Ku and Shibuya are in the middle of Tokyo-to. Tokyo consists of 23 wards and up to 8 cities within the Tokyo area.

                        Anything around the Yamanote line is considered central Tokyo. Anything in Tokyo is generally expensive or generally small for what you pay for.

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                        • #27
                          I can't tell if you are attempting to agree with him or disagree with him. The content is agreeing, the tone is disagreeing.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
                            [Edit]During my study in Japan I had a 18 sq m. place out in Kanagawa near Kawasaki that was the perfect size for me by myself. Wasn't terribly expensive, but the university was subsidizing the rent and utilities. Mostly looking in the Saitama/Kanagawa/Chiba area (don't really want to live in Tokyo-to)
                            He was saying he doesn't want to live in Tokyo-to but Meguro and Shibuya are viable. If Im not mistaken both are in Tokyo.

                            Good luck finding something cheap in those areas, if they are near major railway stations.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
                              ...unless I'm doing the math wrong and living in like Meguro-ku or Shibuya-ku is equally viable.
                              You do understand what 'unless' means right?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Siitrasn View Post
                                .... I'd rather live frugally for my first 5-10 years paying cheap rent and saving money than living in a place in Tokyo-to where I'll be surrounded by lots of temptations.

                                ...unless I'm doing the math wrong and living in like Meguro-ku or Shibuya-ku is equally viable. At the moment my first choice is Kawasaki City or close to Tamagawa.
                                Be careful of that company-introduced real estate agent - who is paid for having found you the right place - as his pay will be more if your rent is higher. Make sure that you also look on your own. Ask - Is this what you would introduce to a Japanese person?

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