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Companies that require unpaid overtime

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  • Companies that require unpaid overtime

    Are there companies that actually pay people overtime in Japan? Having a rough time finding a job that compensates people properly. At one part-time place they tried to convince me it's normal to have "service overtime" at an hourly job. What total non-sense?

  • #2
    Originally posted by iidesune View Post
    Are there companies that actually pay people overtime in Japan? Having a rough time finding a job that compensates people properly. At one part-time place they tried to convince me it's normal to have "service overtime" at an hourly job. What total non-sense?
    If you work hard, don’t complain, make yourself noticed, and do this long enough – you may be promoted to a manager. Then you can learn that there are no limits to the unpaid overtime that you can contribute.

    There may be a few firms out there that actually pay for all overtime worked – maybe service jobs at low hourly rates. But all firms will try to limit payroll expense. Most will restrict overtime but many will only restrict it being documented and thus paid.

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    • #3
      Might help to know what sort of work you are interested in.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by iidesune View Post
        Are there companies that actually pay people overtime in Japan? Having a rough time finding a job that compensates people properly. At one part-time place they tried to convince me it's normal to have "service overtime" at an hourly job. What total non-sense?
        Sure, my current & former company paid overtime to the junior employees. But it really depends on the deal.
        As it's illegal to force employees to work unpaid overtime, you can just leave at the specified time and wait for an written response which you can take to the labor office. But don't expect much in terms of raise/promotion.

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        • #5
          Two things on this,
          1. I t depends on the type of job. Finance and law related- it seems to be common to work late for free in exchange for a better than average salary. However, I have a friend that works at Tokyo Gas... and another friend that works for a subsidiary of Toyota... they both get paid overtime in 15 minute intervals.

          2. Older Japanese (especially men) think that staying longer will win them brownie points with the bosses. Younger Japanese don't stay late nearly as much as the older generation.

          There is also a built in "overtime for free" system in many companies. They say "Everyone can leave at 5pm, no problem!", but they give everyone a workload that could not possibly be finished without staying a few extra hours every day.

          ....... gee, after writing that, English Teaching does not seem so bad! ^-^
          Merry Christmas!!

          [edit] One of my former students, when I was teaching in the US, was the vice-president of a fairly large company and was acting as president of the US branch for a few years. He and I were talking about this and he said something very interesting. To paraphrase, "In Japan, the employees usually go home at 7 or 8 almost every day, but I noticed that here in the US branch the employees usually go home at about 6 and only stay late rarely. I really don't see any difference in the quality of their work; I am starting to think that the Japanese employees work really slowly and Americans are more efficient."
          Last edited by nynapaj; 2012-12-25, 10:01 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ttokyo View Post
            Sure, my current & former company paid overtime to the junior employees. But it really depends on the deal.
            As it's illegal to force employees to work unpaid overtime, you can just leave at the specified time and wait for an written response which you can take to the labor office. But don't expect much in terms of raise/promotion.
            My company (kogaisha of a rather large and well-known one in the IT field) pays an overtime allowance to non-management employees that are expected to do on-call and other irregular overtime work. Its supposed to cover the first X hours of OT whether worked or not. Clockin/out is generally not falsified and OT in excess of this is actually paid without any issues. This sort of arrangement seems relatively common in IT companies.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by nynapaj View Post
              Two things on this,
              1. I t depends on the type of job. Finance and law related- it seems to be common to work late for free in exchange for a better than average salary. However, I have a friend that works at Tokyo Gas... and another friend that works for a subsidiary of Toyota... they both get paid overtime in 15 minute intervals.

              2. Older Japanese (especially men) think that staying longer will win them brownie points with the bosses. Younger Japanese don't stay late nearly as much as the older generation.

              There is also a built in "overtime for free" system in many companies. They say "Everyone can leave at 5pm, no problem!", but they give everyone a workload that could not possibly be finished without staying a few extra hours every day.

              ....... gee, after writing that, English Teaching does not seem so bad! ^-^
              Merry Christmas!!

              Granted teaching English is hardly the answer but working in a Japanese office environment?

              Don't think so.

              Rather take my chances with the unemployment line back home

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ttokyo View Post
                Sure, my current & former company paid overtime to the junior employees. But it really depends on the deal.
                As it's illegal to force employees to work unpaid overtime, you can just leave at the specified time and wait for an written response which you can take to the labor office. But don't expect much in terms of raise/promotion.
                Senior (management level) employees (管理職 in Japanese) often get a bit extra in salary (sort of an allowance) for their position within their company (in Japanese this is sometimes called 管理職手当). As a result, they don't get paid for any OT they might work because it is considered one of the responsibilities of their position and something they are already being compensated for. The amount of this 管理職手当 remains the same per month regardless if they work 0 hours or 100 hours of OT. I've worked for both a local government and a private company that have done it this way. However, maybe they were just the exceptions to the rule.

                @OP
                In my opinion, regularly working lots of OT usually means something is not right. Sure during busy times, working extra hours might be necessary just to keep up with the extra work load. However, if you find yourself working well past your quitting time each and every day, then that is a bad sign. Usually it means one of the following: (1) your boss is not very good at their job and is giving you too much work to do within your regular working hours, or (2) you are not very good at your job and are unable to do the work you're being assigned within your regular working hours.

                If you find that your boss is the problem then maybe you can try and discuss your situation and see if something can be worked out. Maybe a rotation can be worked out with your co-workers so that you're not the only one staying late all the time. You have to right to be compensated for you OT, but trying to get paid for every extra minute you stay late might be more of a hassle that it's worth. You have to check your employment contract and see exactly how your OT pay is determined and decide if it's worth it to you.

                If your boss is telling you that you have to stay and essentially work for free (or else) and you've tried to work things out but failed, then maybe head over to your nearest Labor Standards Bureau and see what they say. I think the important thing here, is that the OT your doing is sanctioned by your superiors (i.e., you are being told you have to stay late) and not you just hanging around to try and catch up or get a bit ahead. In my case, I did get paid OT, but I always cleared it with my direct superior first just to make sure there were no problems and I usually didn't start counting until after 30 minutes.

                If you find out that you are the problem, then be carefull with how hard you push about being paid OT. Screwing around part of the day and falling behind and then telling your boss that you have to work late (and want to be paid for doing so) might work a few times, but eventually your boss will get wise and you'll likely find yourself looking for a new job.

                Good luck.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Glenski View Post
                  Might help to know what sort of work you are interested in.
                  Let's see. The OP joined GP within the past couple of days. Has already begun 4 threads ("Companies that require unpaid overtime", "Unpaid ward taxes", "Reporting overstayers", and "Eating cheap") and already made 28 trollish posts on those and other threads.

                  So I guess that the OP is possibly looking for work as an Internet troll.

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                  • #10
                    BTW- I have found something interesting with Japanese companies: it's okay to talk down to the boss or argue with them if they are being jerks.
                    This is something that I would never consider in the US, but it seems quite common here. My friend even told me of an argument that her coworker had with her boss and the boss ended up saying, "We really want you to leave!" and the employee said, "No! I like it here!"

                    You could tell your boss, "This is not fair, you give me much more than other employees, I have to stay late everyday, and I don't even get OT pay for it."

                    In all honesty, I suggest that you talk with him on the same level. I would totally avoid talking "from below" in this situation. (Talking from above is not necessary unless he is being a ____. At that point, you can talk from above and do it clearly so that the other employees around see that he is the one at fault. Amazingly, he WILL apologize.)
                    Japanese respond to these verbal tiers of speech almost unconsciously, and talking from the same level with give you the respect from him. Talking from below will get you, "I'll think about it".

                    The type of speech one uses here gives them power. You can use this to your advantage. Do not say, ~~~下さい! Say, ”~~~ 必要” ”~~~しなければなりません。”

                    However, if EVERYONE stays late all the time, it is just your company and nothing will change because there are essentially too few employees.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shimi View Post
                      Let's see. The OP joined GP within the past couple of days. Has already begun 4 threads ("Companies that require unpaid overtime", "Unpaid ward taxes", "Reporting overstayers", and "Eating cheap") and already made 28 trollish posts on those and other threads.

                      So I guess that the OP is possibly looking for work as an Internet troll.

                      The OP is a nutter with nothing but time on his hand and for reasons unknown has made GP his home.

                      His writing style is fairly obvious as is his need to post relentlessly but basically he's harmless

                      He's usually looking to quarrel which is fine and I enjoy giving his various usernames the boot.

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                      • #12
                        Overtime at salaries positions makes sense. Or anywhere you get a bonus. Unpaid overtime at a PT job though, I mean man. That's gotta be illegal, right?

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