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Stealing Students

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  • #31
    Don't attempt to steal. In fact, it could backfire, you know? Maybe it'll get back to the management that you tried to get a student's contact info. Or, student's may see you for what you are – too lazy to find students elsewhere, and unethical for wanting to "steal" them. Why would a student trust anything you have to say during a lesson if they know you will stoop so low as to steal students from your employer? It's been mentioned above – when a student has finished his or her membership at your school, you can contact the student. But don't do it on school premises. One way would be to "run into" the former student somewhere. But for all that effort, you may as well find students by the normal methods.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Jpnpro View Post
      for all that effort, you may as well find students by the normal methods.
      worth repeating

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      • #33
        Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post

        NOVA students were sucked into buying 200 tickets of lessons, then decided after 6 months they were sick of studying English or got fed up trying to book lessons but couldnt. They ended up with a worthless product (which unlike property you cant sell). Demand fell because students were getting what they paid for, or paid too much (200 lessons at 4,000 yen a pop is 800,000 yen, plus interest).
        Re Nova, pretty much what everyone said was more or less true.
        What finally sunk the company was when the Govt. stopped Nova from signing up new students, the company didn't have the funds to weather the fall in income, to carry the cost of down sizing or to flood the market with the necessary advertising to maintain any sort of consumer confidence, mainly because Suruhashi had stripped billions of yen from the company to pay for his intended escape.

        A number of gaijin employees saw it coming, several months before the crash and got out. I had left the company about 12 months prior to this but received a heap of email from friends, working in Nova's Osaka head office, who were panicking.

        I'm sure there are lots of other theories, but this is what I heard from friends working in Nova senior management.
        Last edited by oxymoron; 2012-04-14, 01:46 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by oxymoron View Post
          Re Nova, pretty much what everyone said was more or less true.
          What finally sunk the company was when the Govt. stopped Nova from signing up new students, the company didn't have the funds to weather the fall in income, to carry the cost of down sizing or to flood the market with the necessary advertising to maintain any sort of consumer confidence, mainly because Suruhashi had stripped billions of yen from the company to pay for his intended escape.

          A number of gaijin employees saw it coming, several months before the crash and got out. I had left the company about 12 months prior to this but received a heap of email from friends, working in Nova's Osaka head office, who were panicking.

          I'm sure there are lots of other theories, but this is what I heard from friends working in Nova senior management.
          honestly, you had to be blind to not seeing it coming. i know there were many false alarms, however when it started going down in early 2008 it was clear. for the love of god, they told the staff to bring in pens from home.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by oxymoron View Post
            Re Nova, pretty much what everyone said was more or less true.
            What finally sunk the company was when the Govt. stopped Nova from signing up new students, the company didn't have the funds to weather the fall in income, to carry the cost of down sizing or to flood the market with the necessary advertising to maintain any sort of consumer confidence, mainly because Suruhashi had stripped billions of yen from the company to pay for his intended escape.

            A number of gaijin employees saw it coming, several months before the crash and got out. I had left the company about 12 months prior to this but received a heap of email from friends, working in Nova's Osaka head office, who were panicking.

            I'm sure there are lots of other theories, but this is what I heard from friends working in Nova senior management.
            Sahashi: I'm Innocent
            Sat, 08/02/2008 - 11:56 \ Shawn

            Sahashi plans to plead innocent.

            This should come as no surprise since he has maintained his innocence (while in hiding) ever since NOVA went bankrupt. A report in the Asahi Shimbun says that Sahashi's plea of not guilty to charges of embezzling 320 million is premised on the fact that that he believed the money in the Shayuukai fund belonged to NOVA and that he used it to pay refunds to students who had canceled their contracts. Sahashi will likely argue that his actions were justified given that the company was in serious financial trouble after METI sanctioned NOVA last June.

            His trial is expected to begin in September at the earliest.

            Although NOVA has been dead for 10 months now, the number of consultations at consumer affairs centers continues to increase. According to an article in the Tokyo Shimbun, statistics for Tokyo show that there were more than 140,000 consumer consultations, a 4.4% increase compared to last year. Consultations about refunds and contract extensions involving long-term services increased sharply, with NOVA and the bankruptcy and closing of esthetic salons at the top of the list. Consultations about foreign language conversation schools, nearly quadrupled to 3523.

            It's not clear how many complaints were specifically about NOVA, but the increase in numbers suggest that NOVA's collapse has had a lasting effect on the foreign language-learning sector and that consumers are still mad as hell and not taking it anymore.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Pinkerton View Post
              honestly, you had to be blind to not seeing it coming. i know there were many false alarms, however when it started going down in early 2008 it was clear. for the love of god, they told the staff to bring in pens from home.
              They were still signing up students and doing demo lessons even though NOVA could not pay teachers their salaries. Some teachers had arrived in the country that month, owed rent and utilities but were not able to get paid, and ended up homeless and teaching for food. Really.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by KansaiBen View Post
                They were still signing up students and doing demo lessons even though NOVA could not pay teachers their salaries. Some teachers had arrived in the country that month, owed rent and utilities but were not able to get paid, and ended up homeless and teaching for food. Really.
                that was some sad motherfvk'in s-h-i-t!

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                • #38
                  Risks

                  I believe a lot of new and young teachers feel they are getting cheated because they don't understand the costs of running a business and the expectations that motivate them. A school owner takes a lot of risk starting a business and they expect a pay off if successful. They aren't doing this to make people feel better or as a charity, they expect to do more then "get by", their expectation is a significant increase in their financial wealth and standard of living. They also have far greater costs then simply "supplying a building/room to teach in". They have rent, utility, maintenance, insurance, and other building costs for the school. They have supply costs for everything from paper to computers. They have payroll not just for you but the secretaries, office manager, attorney, accountant, etc. They also have taxes, and "relationship maintaining expenses" with the local ministry and ward offices, as well as their other suppliers.

                  So of that 5000\ lesson: 2000\ goes to you, 1000\ goes to the owner, and 2000\ goes to overhead and expenses.

                  why do they pocket 1000\ of that (half of what you made) well they took all the risks and did all the legwork in building the business to begin with. If its so easy, your free to find out and start a school yourself.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by vallient View Post
                    why do they pocket 1000\ of that (half of what you made) well they took all the risks and did all the legwork in building the business to begin with. If its so easy, your free to find out and start a school yourself.
                    What they also forget is that you want to start pulling in more than you make in a salary that is after all your expenses are taken out. Most new schools dont even clear a profit in the first couple of years as they build up a student base from which they draw their revenues. All money they make goes back into covering shortfalls and covering costs. You likely wont be able to pay yourself what you are earning as a salary for quite a while.

                    If you imagine that to make 250,000 a month profit from your business, you have to be pulling in at least double that so you can pay your overheads, salary, advertising, rent, and utilities Calculate how many students you need paying saying 3,000 yen an hour (say 12,000 yen a month, by 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to cover at least your overheads, never mind anything left over.You might have kids classes paying 20000 yen a month but that will be once or twice a week. You have to deal with student cancellations, finding new students, no shows.

                    I think noobie teachers flatter themselves that they think they are indispensible to their students and the students will simply change horses because you decide to quit and work for yourself. Some will but the majority will not, and you will also find students will quit on you on a dime. A lot of your time is spent networking and prospecting for new students. Do you know where to find them and how to keep them once you have got them? What will you use to draw them in or are you going to teach them out of Starbucks? Real professional.
                    Last edited by KansaiBen; 2012-04-16, 10:52 PM.

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                    • #40
                      I am curious as to what people think about students following teachers when they leave their schools, as opposed to teachers 'stealing' students. I know of a few similar situations with some teachers that i know, where they began teaching their old students privately after they were contacted by them after leaving their previous schools. Personally i see nothing wrong with this except that some of the larger schools have it written into the teacher's contracts that it is forbidden for teachers to teach any of their students within a set time period after leaving the school. Personally, i know a handful of my students will finish when i eventually leave at some point next year.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by hml View Post
                        Taking advantage of your relationship as a teacher to steal students is akin to seducing a student. A teacher's influence with students is very strong. It's very difficult to see one as unethical and the other not.
                        You are correct. Therefore he should seduce the students as well to be consistent.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ChucklingJawa View Post
                          I am curious as to what people think about students following teachers when they leave their schools, as opposed to teachers 'stealing' students. I know of a few similar situations with some teachers that i know, where they began teaching their old students privately after they were contacted by them after leaving their previous schools.
                          Legally there might be some issues, but ethically I figure it's all good. Students have the right to spend their money where they want, and if they want to follow a teacher, that's their right. But it has to be initiated by the student.

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